US Navy cutting basic to 9 weeks from 10.

[dimsum]

Would an RCAF common course be useful?

The various RCAF trades have little to no commonality with each other. At least most RCN trades are onboard ship for a time, and CA trades are in the field, so NETP or CAP make some sense to bring about a common curriculum.

The RCAF is divided not only between trades but fleets, so as we’ve mentioned here before, even a trade (e.g. Pilot) isn’t really one culture but dependent on what fleet you’re in. I have more cultural commonality with an LRP Pilot or AES Op than a Transport or SAR ACSO, despite wearing the same wings.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The various RCAF trades have little to no commonality with each other. At least most RCN trades are onboard ship for a time, and CA trades are in the field, so NETP or CAP make some sense to bring about a common curriculum.

The RCAF is divided not only between trades but fleets, so as we’ve mentioned here before, even a trade (e.g. Pilot) isn’t really one culture but dependent on what fleet you’re in. I have more cultural commonality with an LRP Pilot or AES Op than a Transport or SAR ACSO, despite wearing the same wings.

So.... kind of like the Infantry then?

 

[PrairieFella]

The only way into the CAF is through the ARes ?

Look, I'm a fan of ARes but believe it or not some people don't want to be Army; they actually want to be Navy and Airforce.

I think he means to say have Regs fill openings on ResF basics.

 

[Halifax Tar]

2027? Jesus that's a long time since the last refit, no? I thought that was around 2019, and she was sailing around with restrictions on the hull since 2021 or something.

I'd be surprised if some of the ships don't get retired when the price comes in, and we're already not maintaining them to basic SOLAS standards.

Yup I brought her out of the ditch from her last refit.

 

[ArmyRick]

As a former soldier that taught several BMQs, reserve and regular force, I will chime in with my 2 cents.

I do see the value of common training syllabus and and having what appears to efficiency of training at a centralized school. However I have also seen the negatives. I remember in 2006-2008, St Jean couldn't keep up with recruiting and many Reg F BMQs were farmed out to Borden, Meaford and from what I heard Wainwright as well. I had first hand experience with the Meaford courses.

The ARes I think shows the way ahead. They do BMQ in like every possible location where there is an armoury. They have to. You don't want to drive recruits four hours just to do a course as one big happy family. It will suck resources.

So we know the army can do decentralized BMQ with so far good results, and have been doing it for many decades.

We have Navy, Army and Air Force Schools for trades training. Why not close down St Jean and add a few more PY to the appointed schools within each element (How many schools does Borden have?)

Its more important to have the correct syllabus in say the first (common phase?) of each environmental course. Its far more cost efficient to have a few trained SMEs that could then guide the course instructors in my view. The SMEs could be controlled by one CoE via email, zoom, etc.

In my view, the common phase on recruit training should be as follows (take 4-5 weeks)
-Military Knowledge
-C7 Service Rifle
-I feel 9mm pistol should be there too but thats another debate
-Drill
-First AId
-CRBN Defence

Thats it. Those are the common skills I think every serving member needs (less padres). But I am a retired WO who talks to cattle and sheep all day. So take it for what it is worth.

 

[Navy_Pete]

It’s almost like 30+ year old hulls with questionable maintenance done on them during that time don’t hold out as well as we would like.

The operational cycle the ships are designed to is 60 months (5 years), and sometimes gets stretched by another year. 8 years is insane for a couple of reasons, especially with no major maintenance cycle to do a lot of safety critical things like verify your high pressure cylinders are good to go.

With an op cycle that long, it also means you have to do your 10 and 12 year major items every single DWP (vice every other one) so the DWPs will cost more.

So yes, there is a huge maintenance deficit, but this is like beating on them intentionally to drive them to failure ASAP, and kind of the opposite of what you need to do if you want to have them eek out another 15-20 years.

The 280s were much better maintained for most of their life, and were much more overdesigned, and still self-decomissioned around this point.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As a former soldier that taught several BMQs, reserve and regular force, I will chime in with my 2 cents.

I do see the value of common training syllabus and and having what appears to efficiency of training at a centralized school. However I have also seen the negatives. I remember in 2006-2008, St Jean couldn't keep up with recruiting and many Reg F BMQs were farmed out to Borden, Meaford and from what I heard Wainwright as well. I had first hand experience with the Meaford courses.

The ARes I think shows the way ahead. They do BMQ in like every possible location where there is an armoury. They have to. You don't want to drive recruits four hours just to do a course as one big happy family. It will suck resources.

So we know the army can do decentralized BMQ with so far good results, and have been doing it for many decades.

We have Navy, Army and Air Force Schools for trades training. Why not close down St Jean and add a few more PY to the appointed schools within each element (How many schools does Borden have?)

Its more important to have the correct syllabus in say the first (common phase?) of each environmental course. Its far more cost efficient to have a few trained SMEs that could then guide the course instructors in my view. The SMEs could be controlled by one CoE via email, zoom, etc.

In my view, the common phase on recruit training should be as follows (take 4-5 weeks)
-Military Knowledge
-C7 Service Rifle
-I feel 9mm pistol should be there too but thats another debate
-Drill
-First AId
-CRBN Defence

Thats it. Those are the common skills I think every serving member needs (less padres). But I am a retired WO who talks to cattle and sheep all day. So take it for what it is worth.

But you neglect to take into account the main purpose of having recruit training centralized in St Jean: sucking up to Quebec

 

[ArmyRick]

But you neglect to take into account the main purpose of having recruit training centralized in St Jean: sucking up to Quebec

Ouch. How I do touch this? I am in Ontario, Quebec is in the next seat. Your lucky, your at the end of the dinner table and can get away with trash talking Quebec.

 

[ArmyRick]

But you neglect to take into account the main purpose of having recruit training centralized in St Jean: sucking up to Quebec

In all seriousness, I did basic in Cornwallis. It was literally like something out of the movies they way it was laid out as a recruit camp. Hell even our CSM in Cornwallis told us it was a political decision to shut them down and keep St Jean going.

 

[quadrapiper]

To do what?

No idea! That's why I asked.