US Presidential Election 2020

[mariomike]

Another angle to stay in power?

Report: Trump Campaign Actively Discussing Radical Measures To Bypass Election Results
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/23/report-trump-campaign-actively-discussing-radical-measures-to-bypass-election-results/#7ac8515b4800

 

[Brad Sallows]

Not exactly.  Disregarding unsubstantiated fear-mongering that extraordinary measures might be entertained as a method of bypassing fault-free election results, there is discussion of measures to be taken where results appear to be fraudulent.  One could hope that people would not get their panties in wads over theoretical discussions of legitimate paths for resolving difficult problems, but that would be pointless.

I expect both campaigns to litigate heavily and explore all constitutionally viable options everywhere they think results are questionable.  Both campaigns and numerous supporters of each have said and urged as much.  Various media agencies will, of course, choose which remarks and activities to emphasize to create the illusion of one-sided malfeasance.  The Atlantic is a Democratic talking-points shop and has been for a few years now, so articles there will tend to throw up FUD about nefarious Republicans.

Anyone who thinks anything is "off the table" hasn't been paying full attention to both sides.  Creative election-altering gambits were explored in the immediate post-election period in 2016; I expect the same this time.

 

[Donald H]

Another angle to stay in power?

Maybe all the fears of Trump cheating to win is all just a part of stoking up the fear in the Democrats? Trump's team is smart enough to do just that.

Should Canadians care who wins? I see a lot of pros and cons for either of them.

 

[dimsum]

Should Canadians care who wins? I see a lot of pros and cons for either of them.

Uh, yes we should care regardless of who wins.  They are our largest trading partner and we share the longest undefended border with them.  What happens in the US affects Canada more than most other places.

 

[Donald H]

Uh, yes we should care regardless of who wins.  They are our largest trading partner and we share the longest undefended border with them.  What happens in the US affects Canada more than most other places.

That just avoids answering the question in my opinion. You do understand the question don't you?

Do Canadians care whether Trump wins or Biden wins, and why?

I tried to say that either of them would have both positive and negative effects on Canada. I'll elaborate if called upon to do so. What do you think?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Maybe list your pros and cons before asking others?

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Should Canadians care who wins?" is just a yes/no question, and Dimsum answered "yes".

Instead of moving goalposts, ask clear questions in the first place.

 

[Donald H]

Maybe list your pros and cons before asking others?

Biden- An aggressive approach against Russia in tune with the rhetoric that's been floated by the media for so long. He can't possibly ignore it all.
A relief from what I see as the aim of Trump to bring about reform to America that would be tantamount to fascism

Trump- A continuing peaceable approach to Putin/Russia (for whatever of the reasons listed) that would be consistent with Trump's aim to bring all the troops home. Also my suspicions that I've voiced here before on Trump treating China the same.
Bringing about change that is so heavily promoted by the US media as a move to fascism.

That's just a rough thumbnail sketch and now I think it's time for some of the others to express their preference and possibly some reasons why!

Do you have an opinion on either of them being the best choice for Canadians?

 

[Brad Sallows]

The Trump administration's policy towards Russia is more hostile than the Obama (/Biden) administration's was.  The Democrats' collective self-pity tantrum over a tiny bit of election influence peddling doesn't move that dial much.

If you want an example of an administration tantamount to fascism, you should go back and look at FDR's.  Trump's is nothing like FDR's.

Conclusions based on garbage premises are also garbage.

 

[Donald H]

The Trump administration's policy towards Russia is more hostile than the Obama (/Biden) administration's was.  The Democrats' collective self-pity tantrum over a tiny bit of election influence peddling doesn't move that dial much.

So you're in favour of Trump. Can you express any reasons why as that relates to what is best for Canada?

If you want an example of an administration tantamount to fascism, you should go back and look at FDR's.  Trump's is nothing like FDR's.

I know that FDR is hated by the right and I'm aware of many of the reasons why. But I've NEVER heard an accusation that he leaned toward fascism. Can you elaborate on that or is the explanation contained in you final comment below?

Conclusions based on garbage premises are also garbage.

As I've expressed several times before, I cautiously lean toward Trump being more in Canada's interests. If only because a GOP presisent and GOP congress are traditionally better for free trade relations. The Dem party has always been traditionally more interested in protecting their own working class.

:cheers:

 

[Brad Sallows]

>So you're in favour of Trump.

How did you conclude that?  If I state that a dolphin swims faster than a dog, it doesn't mean that I'm in favour of dolphins.  If you haven't figured it out, my shtick is to comment on coverage of Trump that misses the mark or is dishonest, and on norm- and institution-eroding opinions and actions by the people who claim to be alarmed by erosion of norms and institutions.

>But I've NEVER heard an accusation that he leaned toward fascism.

I don't know how much FDR leaned toward fascism; he expressed admiration for Mussolini and some of the things being done by Mussolini.  But what I wrote was "an administration tantamount to fascism" (eg. the NRA), not "FDR leaned toward fascism".  There was cross-pollination of political ideas in the '30s; it's not forbidden to read about it.

 

[Donald H]

No, that's not what I said. I said I cautiously lean toward Trump, and that was related to how Trump might be better for Canada. If you think I've been dishonest about Trump then you can tell me how.

Would you care to tell me if you think Trump would be better for Canada?

:cheers:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This link belongs both here and on the Belorussia thread.
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/protests-erupt-in-belarus-amid-secret-inauguration-92450373646

Trump is refusing to step in with an opinion that would energize the protesters in Belorus. Why?

1. Trump is heavily invested in Russia.
2. Trump is being blackmailed by Putin.
3. Trump is supportive of improved and peaceful relations with Russia.
4. ??

#3 above would suggest that his base is in tune with the cry to 'bring all the troops home'. The best opinion I can offer is that it's a combination of all three.

I'll post this link on the Belorus thread as well.

Could it be that he feels it's not his place to interfere right now? After all, he has a fair amount on his plate already. He has protesters at home to worry about. Maybe things aren't really as nefarious as people wish or let on or they simply want to create discord? Just a guess.

 

[a_majoor]

Democrats are finally realizing the dangers of the mail in balloting they had previously advocated for:

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stacey-lennox/2020/09/24/we-told-you-so-democrats-are-making-a-u-turn-on-mail-in-voting-n962446

WE TOLD YOU SO: Democrats Are Making a U-Turn on Mail-In Voting
BY STACEY LENNOX SEP 24, 2020 11:49 AM EST

Democrats used COVID-19 as a pretext to try and change the way America votes. In fact, mail-in voting, ballot harvesting, and other various and sundry election law changes were part of the reason Democrats refused to debate a narrow COVID relief bill. Because Republicans wouldn’t agree to give up every election security feature we have, you and your family couldn’t get your unemployment benefits extended, schools lost money, and small business owners were left without assistance.

To block the bill, Democrats used the filibuster, which Barack Obama called a Jim Crow relic during the Democrat National Convention. However, we will leave that blatant hypocrisy for another time. It is becoming exceedingly clear that Democrats intend to use whatever tools they can to gain power and retain it. Burning down our institutional norms and any semblance of consensus is their obvious goal.

Mail-in voting was a part of this power grab. By drawing out election results, they could gin up their base and keep them irrational and violent. They have been so kind as to warn us that the only outcome that does not lead to violence in the streets is a Joe Biden landslide. It is a blatant and disgusting attempt to extort your vote.

Joe Biden Votes In Person, Wrecks the Democrats’ We Need Mail-In Voting’ Narrative
Asking people to vote as soon as possible — preferably before the first debate, where there is a risk Joe Biden will mentally collapse — appears to be the only part of the strategy they are hanging onto. Given his angry reaction to being questioned on son Hunter’s activities in Ukraine and elsewhere, if President Trump mentions it, the presidential debate may look more like a WWE event.

That is, if there even are debates. Today is Joe Biden’s ninth press lid before noon in September, which could be motivating the vote-early strategy. Only six days left to affect the before-the-debates vote, in the event they are canceled.

However, now they want you to vote in person. Take your mail-in ballot to the board of elections to ensure it is counted or go to the polls. This is the exact opposite of the Democrats’ previous narrative—that in-person voting would be unsafe due to COVID-19.

Perhaps they finally figured out that mail-in voting puts them at a distinct disadvantage. Democrats and their allies in the media had successfully scared their own voters into voting by mail, but not President Trump’s. According to USA Today:

Thirty-seven percent of registered voters said they are likely to vote by mail in the November election, by receiving a mailed ballot and either mailing it back or returning it in person, according to a new survey released Tuesday by the Democracy Fund + UCLA Nationscape project.

Among them, 48% of voters who plan to vote for Democratic presumptive nominee Joe Biden said they are likely to vote by mail, according to the survey. That’s more than twice the 23% of voters backing President Donald Trump who said they are likely to vote by mail

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Switches the Narrative on Mail-in Voting!
This statistic is likely what Hawkfish based its analysis on. The Bloomberg-funded firm said it would look like Trump won on election night, but mail-in votes would come in at a rate of more than two to one for Biden as they were counted. However, there are a few flaws in that analysis. Axios points out:

A fresh Pennsylvania state Supreme Court ruling that requires ballots without the inner security envelope be discarded could affect tens of thousands of votes in that swing state.
In Florida, voters are twice as likely to have their absentee ballot rejected if they’ve never voted that way before, University of Florida political science professor Dan Smith told Axios.
In North Carolina, “Black voters’ ballots are being rejected at more than four times the rate of white voters,” per FiveThirtyEight. Overall, data shows new, younger, black, and Hispanic voters are more likely to have their ballots rejected.
More than 550k mail-in ballots were rejected during the presidential primaries this year, per an NPR analysis.
That is not all. One election in Paterson, New Jersey, was thrown out due to mail-in voting and suspected fraud. There was also a 20% voter disenfranchisement rate in the party’s own primary in Queens, New York. In Georgia, the secretary of state is also investigating 1,000 ballots alleging that people voted twice. None of this should be a surprise since an analysis of mail-in voting between 2012 and 2018 showed that a one-in-five rejection rate is pretty consistent.

Queens Primary Gives Us a Preview of the Mayhem Mail-in Voting Could Create in November
And just today, a massive problem arose in Maryland: 108,000 ballots that were printed off the internet need to be hand-transcribed by poll workers. Both parties need observers there while this mess gets sorted out. Talk about losing your secret ballot.

A web-delivered ballots seems so easy. But now 108,000 of them must be hand-copied by Maryland poll workers to be counted. Each must be transcribed into regular ballots in order for the state’s scanners to read them. https://t.co/KuoYKikNAp

— Erin Cox (@ErinatThePost) September 24, 2020

Reality is dawning on Democrats, and while they still want you to vote really, really early, they are doing a complete pivot on mail-in votes. Again, from Axios:

Driving the news: In Colorado, former Gov. John Hickenlooper, who’s running against Sen. Cory Gardner, told Axios that he’s encouraging voters to physically take their mail-in ballots to a dropbox and to do so “early, really early.”

Paulette Jordan, a Democratic candidate for Senate in Idaho, told Axios that she’s encouraging voters to take their filled out mail ballots in person to the county courthouse.
Black PAC has moved from exclusively educating voters on voting by mail to informing about all available options: in-person, absentee, early voting and voting on Election Day.

The Collective PAC — the largest Black-led political action committee targeting Black voters and candidates — is pivoting, too. “We’re shifting away from making plans to vote by mail to voting early in person,” Quentin James, the group’s founder, told Axios.
The pivot is reflected by Barack and Michelle Obama, both of whom have been encouraging Democrats not just to vote by mail, but to vote early any way they can, including in person.

Biden campaign officials say they’ve always encouraged people to vote however they are most comfortable, and that they’ve never exclusively stressed one method over another.

“For us it’s always been about how we can get people to vote early no matter what, and that’s our number one priority,” said Jenn Ridder, national states director for the Biden campaign.

“Folks who like to vote in person can still do that early too, by filling out your ballot and physically bringing it to the polling location.”
A better suggestion is for voters to wait until after the first debate and the initial hearings on the Supreme Court nominee in the Senate Judiciary Committee. At least wait for the October surprises. No voter should regret their vote when a real bombshell drops. With thirty-nine days left, anything can happen.

 

[Remius]

For context on your source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pj-media/

 

[mariomike]

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stacey-lennox/2020/09/24/we-told-you-so-democrats-are-making-a-u-turn-on-mail-in-voting-n962446

For context on your source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pj-media/

"Overall, we rate PJ Media to be Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies as well as numerous failed fact checks."

 

[Jarnhamar]

"Overall, we rate PJ Media to be Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies as well as numerous failed fact checks."

"Mixed factual reporting", basically the right wing image of CNN then. Good stuff.

 

[mariomike]

"Mixed factual reporting", 

"Mixed"? What is your source for that "quote", Jarnhamar?

Overall, we rate PJ Media to be Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies as well as numerous failed fact checks.

, basically the right wing image of CNN then.

"CNN sucks!" is what we hear them chanting at his rallies.

Overall, we rate CNN left biased based on editorial positions that consistently favors the left, while straight news reporting falls left-center through bias by omission. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to several failed fact checks by TV hosts. However, news reporting on the website tends to be properly sourced with minimal failed fact checks.

Whataboutism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

[kkwd]

Democrats are finally realizing the dangers of the mail in balloting they had previously advocated for:

Further to this is a piece from Axios. Any complaints about this source?

Democrats' mail voting pivot
Democrats spent the early months of the coronavirus pandemic urging their base to vote absentee. But as threats of U.S. Postal Service delays, Team Trump litigation and higher ballot rejection rates become clearer, many are pivoting to promote more in-person voting as well.

Why it matters: Democrats are exponentially more likely to vote by mail than Republicans this year — and if enough mail-in ballots are lost, rejected on a technicality or undercounted, it could change the outcome of the presidential election or other key races.

https://www.axios.com/democrats-mail-voting-pivot-838522b7-8dac-42b4-a566-1ba93818654d.html
Straight from Joe Biden's Twitter account. Any heartache with Joe's words?
https://www.axios.com/democrats-mail-voting-pivot-838522b7-8dac-42b4-a566-1ba93818654d.html

Joe Biden@JoeBiden
In-person early voting should be easy and convenient for all. The Flint, MI City Clerk's office will be open the last three weekends before Election Day for folks to cast their ballots. It's an example that cities and states across the country should follow.

 

[Donald H]

The left in  America is still a bit right of the rest of the world now. This accounts for all the mainstream bias toward the left. They're not fake media or crooked media, they're normal.