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US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

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You'll have to show your work for that one.
Nope, I don't have to show my work. That's what it looks like to me and a lot of other people, and I'm never going to be able to convince you otherwise. So, to me it is showing that both sides are using the same tactics (I've made it very clear that I believe the zealots on both sides are the problem). I understand my biases (I feel that western governments are deliberately dividing us to distract us from the main problems and govern in their best interests, left and right). Do you understand yours?

I'm not trying to sway the zealot left or right... I'm trying to get the silent majority to tell them to shut up.

Trump certainly engaged in the rhetoric (eg. "lock her up"). But the thing is, he didn't actually follow through. That sets him apart.
Donald Trump: Three decades 4,095 lawsuits sounds like he is well practiced in lawfare.
 
Lawfare (in the sense of being applied against individuals) has to have a basis in law; it wouldn't make sense for the matters brought before the courts to not be plausible. What makes it "lawfare" is when rules are applied selectively with ulterior aims. People in positions to take action have vowed to "get Trump" and his associates and some of his supporters; that toothpaste isn't going back into the tube. Everyone involved in the pursuit of punishment seems to have the forethought of Cersei Lannister. "Rule of law" requires consistency.
In what way is the rule being applied selectively? There is literally no other case with a comparable fact set or to which the law in question would apply.

There is a presumption of open courts. That’s a principle in both America’s justice system and ours. Information can be protected from public scrutiny, but that’s rare, relatively exceptional, and needs to have a compelling reason. Preventing embarrassment and protecting political candidates are not valid grounds.

This disclosure is a filing that has never happened before. This filing is the prosecution presenting its arguments to assert that acts of a sitting president were not official, or to rebut presumptive immunity for official acts. This is a new thing required as a result of Trump’s recent win at SCOTUS on the immunity issue. The same SCOTUS decision that handed him that presumptive immunity also prescribed that questions of the nature of presidential actions had to be hammered out pre-trial.

Consequently, the next procedural step was for the prosecutors to file their factual assertions and their legal arguments regarding whether Trump’s actions were in a personal or official capacity.

Given the open court principle, the alternative would have been to suppress public access to court records for the sole purpose of the accused being a political candidate. That would be an inappropriate reason for the courts to block the public from this info.

So, essentially, Trump did this to himself through his conduct, his legal pleadings, and his pre-trial litigation.

In any future case where a presidential candidate is criminally indicted and asserts immunity because his or her actions were in their capacity as the serving president, I would expect this to play out the same way in terms of public disclosure. Needless to say, it will be rare that this is tested.

All said and done though there’s not a lot revealed in this filing that wasn’t already known. I doubt many opinions will be swayed.
 
So, the below is one case that I suspect will have a lot of negative repercussions for Republicans. I’m anti-abortion, but the incident below really trouble me with denying care.

Shouldn’t be paywall as I gifted it.

 
Given the open court principle, the alternative would have been to suppress public access to court records for the sole purpose of the accused being a political candidate. That would be an inappropriate reason for the courts to block the public from this info.
Except it appears the DOJ is going against it's own rules. And the optics support the position they are attempting to impact the election.

9-85.500 Actions that May Have an Impact on an Election​

Federal prosecutors and agents may never select the timing of any action, including investigative steps, criminal charges, or statements, for the purpose of affecting any election, or for the purpose of giving an advantage or disadvantage to any candidate or political party.
 
Except it appears the DOJ is going against it's own rules. And the optics support the position they are attempting to impact the election.

9-85.500 Actions that May Have an Impact on an Election​

Federal prosecutors and agents may never select the timing of any action, including investigative steps, criminal charges, or statements, for the purpose of affecting any election, or for the purpose of giving an advantage or disadvantage to any candidate or political party.
None of those things were done, and federal prosecutors did not select the timing. This filing was submitted by DOJ to the court to meet a deadline the court set. The filing was not released by DOJ, it was released by the court after considering both parties’ legal submissions on redactions.

This is why it’s important to understand what the applicable policy and the set of facts actually are before alleging malfeasance.
 
Yeah yeah, how convenient. Except doing what they've done does not avoid the appearance of malfeasance, which is only slightly less important then avoiding actual malfeasance altogether. Perhaps they should have asked the court for a different deadline in order to not appear to be impacting an election.
 
Yeah yeah, how convenient. Except doing what they've done does not avoid the appearance of malfeasance, which is only slightly less important then avoiding actual malfeasance altogether. Perhaps they should have asked the court for a different deadline in order to not appear to be impacting an election.
Or, to circle back to where we started, perhaps Trump should have allowed the process to play out before the election, as suggested by the Senate Majority leader at the impeachment. That way people who aren't MAGAs but prefer a more conservative view wouldn't have to hold their noses. I would hazard to guess there is at least one person on this thread that feels that way, and gets a vote.
 
Yeah yeah, how convenient. Except doing what they've done does not avoid the appearance of malfeasance, which is only slightly less important then avoiding actual malfeasance altogether. Perhaps they should have asked the court for a different deadline in order to not appear to be impacting an election.
You’re saying DOJ should help build a precedent of putting the already moving criminal justice system on pause during a period of political candidacy. That, of course, is absurd. Trump’s counsel already moved to have all of this delayed til after the election. The court did not find it appropriate to halt everything.

But in any case you’re just moving the goalposts after your first kick at this can was shown to be inconsistent with facts.
 
Nope, I don't have to show my work.
Sure. My basis for believing ethical and conflict-of-interest rules were not violated by Thomas or Alito is that the accusations against them are things some people believe should be covered by ethical rules - and might be now - but definitely were not at the time. On the subject of recusals, the customs are narrow, conflict of interest and financial interest being the main points. Spouses' independent political activities don't count, and if the situation were reversed and if people were proposing one of the "Democratic" (and female) justices recuse on the basis of activism of a spouse or other family member, I can easily guess what the response would be from the people who worked for decades to give women equal agency with their husbands and partners.
That's what it looks like to me and a lot of other people, and I'm never going to be able to convince you otherwise. So, to me it is showing that both sides are using the same tactics (I've made it very clear that I believe the zealots on both sides are the problem).
There are zealots on both sides, but on the specific point of the USSC, it is simply not the case that zealots are working to unseat the "Democratic" justices at a level that rises to much notice, if at all. The reaction from conservatives to a disappointing ruling is a bit of whining about why the ruling is wrong, and then they move on. No death threats, no implied you'll-be-sorry threats, no renewals of calls for restructuring the USSC, no suggestions that women aren't responsible for themselves.
 
In what way is the rule being applied selectively? There is literally no other case with a comparable fact set or to which the law in question would apply.
Maybe in the particular case you are writing about it isn't. But my comment is for general application, not the specific case.
 
On the Shawn Ryan Show episode #136 he hosts a fella named Cliff Sims who was a White House insider during Trumps administration. He talks about interactions with General Mattis, being sued by Trump, and how the first campaign and administration operated. Very interesting perspective and the kind of insight you wouldn't see from MSM.

If anything is going to save the US from it's current trajectory, it will be social media and independent podcasts or similar mediums that get a more realistic and truthful account to the public.
 
On the Shawn Ryan Show episode #136 he hosts a fella named Cliff Sims who was a White House insider during Trumps administration. He talks about interactions with General Mattis, being sued by Trump, and how the first campaign and administration operated. Very interesting perspective and the kind of insight you wouldn't see from MSM.

If anything is going to save the US from it's current trajectory, it will be social media and independent podcasts or similar mediums that get a more realistic and truthful account to the public.

TBF, Shawn Ryan also hosts a few conspiracy theorists of epic proportions... which undermines his credibility AFAIC..
 
TBF, Shawn Ryan also hosts a few conspiracy theorists of epic proportions... which undermines his credibility AFAIC..

I'd like to be the one who decides what I'll listen to and entertain as possible rather than the MSM or some other platform that decides for me what I should hear or not hear. People like Shawn Ryan make that possible. In my view, his willingness to step outside the "norm" on that makes him more credible.
 

This article presents the dichotomy between the Trump and the Obama/Biden/Harris Middle East policies, which have been playing out before our eyes. Not sure how any of the Trump detractors here can realistically defend their position with history as evidence.
 

This article presents the dichotomy between the Trump and the Obama/Biden/Harris Middle East policies, which have been playing out before our eyes. Not sure how any of the Trump detractors here can realistically defend their position with history as evidence.
Plenty of articles that take a different approach





Basically that we wouldn’t be where we are now if the deal was still in place. And putting the genie back in the bottle is now next to impossible.
 
There are many opinions published on the subject. You have to ask yourself two things; what was Iran capable of under crushing economic sanctions vs what is Iran capable of with billions of dollars flowing in? What was Iran doing then vs now? From there you should be able to get to a point of which policy was better for ME peace and which isn't.

...Unless of course the goal is to give Iran enough rope to trigger a war to justify totally destroying them...
 
Plenty of articles that take a different approach

Basically that we wouldn’t be where we are now if the deal was still in place. And putting the genie back in the bottle is now next to impossible.
If, as RS claims, Iran went from needing one year to produce enough fissile material to only a few weeks with nothing changing except the termination of the JCPOA, then the supposed timeline - in addition to being too short to really matter - was only ever an artificial construct (ie. Iran has for some time now always been only a few weeks away from accumulating the material). Iran has given up nothing, gained something in return, and continued to be the principal agitator in the region.

I get that the deal was basically a time-buying "horse might learn to sing" gambit, but forlorn improbable hopes aren't a sound basis for foreign policy.
 

I’m sure it’ll go well…
 

I’m sure it’ll go well…

Can you post the article ? It wont open on DWAN.
 
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