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US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

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If you would describe the quality of the posts on this site as "drivel", then please for the love of god and your health, do NOT ever go on Reddit or Twitter. You will have an aneurism.
Yeah, let's not try put words in my mouth. Just like I don't have the vast majority of people on ignore, I don't consider the majority of posts 'drivel.' Just a few.

I never read reddit. I only go to X if someone points me there with a link. I don't participate in either.

Anyway, the thread isn't about you or me. I'm done discussing our personalities and dragging things off topic.
 
It's easy. Trump is a known quantity. You can go back to 2015 and the same people here are making the same argument that they made back then. Almost word for word. There is nothing new about him. Harris on the other hand needs exposure.
I thought the whole thing in 2015-2016 was that he was an unknown and not beholden to the “Deep State”? That he was independently wealthy and so wouldn’t be easily influenced?

But yes, the same people who said he was a buffoon then are saying he’s a buffoon now. But it’s more “you are going to vote for him again?!”
 
I thought the whole thing in 2015-2016 was that he was an unknown and not beholden to the “Deep State”? That he was independently wealthy and so wouldn’t be easily influenced?

But yes, the same people who said he was a buffoon then are saying he’s a buffoon now. But it’s more “you are going to vote for him again?!”
He's a buffoon; so what? Some of the people voting for him are doing so because "expected effects of another Trump administration vs a Harris administration" > "he's a buffoon". His buffoonery is an irritation mainly to self-important people whose existence is irrelevant or even annoying to many voters.
 
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Down near my local Post Office. Public space so the signage rules are equal space per candidate.
 
He's a buffoon; so what? Some of the people voting for him are doing so because "expected effects of another Trump administration vs a Harris administration" > "he's a buffoon". His buffoonery is an irritation mainly to self-important people whose existence is irrelevant or even annoying to many voters.
Forgot to add: In 2016 one of the arguments was that the “checks and balances” feature of the US system would prevent anyone from too much harm. The last 8 years would prove otherwise.

I guess Generals Milley and Mattis, as well as the folks in his first admin now not supporting him, are “self-important people”.
 
Forgot to add: In 2016 one of the arguments was that the “checks and balances” feature of the US system would prevent anyone from too much harm. The last 8 years would prove otherwise.
Contrarily, the successful pushback against Trump during the Trump administration from Congress, courts, military, media, etc suggest that formal, statutory and informal, non-statutory checks and balances are powerful and well-regulated.
I guess Generals Milley and Mattis, as well as the folks in his first admin now not supporting him, are “self-important people”.
I suppose Milley at least shat his credibility with some Americans by communicating with the Chinese over his own imaginary fears. It's OK for people to posit Chicken Little scenarios and wonder aloud at their "safety concerns"; they shouldn't act unilaterally or even in limited concert on them.
 
He's a buffoon; so what? Some of the people voting for him are doing so because "expected effects of another Trump administration vs a Harris administration" > "he's a buffoon". His buffoonery is an irritation mainly to self-important people whose existence is irrelevant or even annoying to many voters.
It's doesn't actually matter. In fact, I find some of his buffoonery quite charming. His little wiggle dance is very humanizing. The only reason we've been talking about his buffoonery so much is simply because someone made a categorical and hyperbolic comparison, and I refused to back down.

However, it's one thing to be a buffoon sometimes, as in the buffoon definition as "clown", and it's another thing to be a buffoon when being asked to provide a clear articulation of one's plans and policies, as in the buffoon definition as "a gross and usually ill-educated or stupid person."
 
Based on what is reported:

The petition Musk is asking people to sign reads: "The First and Second Amendments guarantee freedom of speech and the right to bear arms. By signing below, I am pledging my support for the First and Second Amendments."
Attendees of Saturday's event had to sign the petition, which allows America PAC to garner contact details for more potential voters that it can work to get to the polls for Trump.


It would be legal, as it isn’t directly buying votes. But contact details, well speaking from experience once the Trump team gets them you can attempt to remove yourself but it has been well over 4 years and I still get MAGA spam and money requests regardless of how many times I remove myself from their rolls.
I'm not thinking the petition per se, but this is clearly flying very close to the sun WRT voter registrations, etc. I did read a short summary here; I cannot vouch for this but it's cause the question marks to be floating over my head. Elon Musk Veers Into Clearly Illegal Vote Buying, Offering $1 Million Per Day Lottery Prize Only to Registered Voters #ELB
That'd be like saying he's paying them to get a driver's licence, if that were one of the criteria.

Following up: DOJ has apparently warned Musk’s America PAC that this scheme may in fact be illegal.


Not sure if they’ve ceased and desisted or not. If so, this may go away; I highly doubt DOJ would do anything public before the election. If not, there could be some trouble for someone after the election, unless a reelected a Trump were to have an investigation shit down in January.
 
Following up: DOJ has apparently warned Musk’s America PAC that this scheme may in fact be illegal.


Not sure if they’ve ceased and desisted or not. If so, this may go away; I highly doubt DOJ would do anything public before the election. If not, there could be some trouble for someone after the election, unless a reelected a Trump were to have an investigation shit down in January.


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Oddly it isn’t letting me add text to that.

But the narrative seems to have changed on the Musk messaging.
 
I'm not sure how anyone can vote for Harris as she has a strong hand in putting America in the state that its in, seeing as she has been the VP.


Lastly I am not sure how in a country of 300 million plus people these are the best two they can come up with. And I am not sure who the lesser of the two evils is.

Good things I don't get a vote, it would be a hard choice..
A Harris presidency means 4 years of an administration trying to enact social and economic policies that the GOP does not support. It means 4 years of politicking, where the GOP legislature (whether or not they control it) works to soften or outright curtail the agenda of the Harris presidency. The end result is some good policies getting through, and some bad ones getting through (in either case, policies are either good or bad based on both objective and subjective criteria). You can choose to believe that Harris' presidency would "destroy America" (as Musk is shouting all over Twitter) but both critical thinking and an analysis of history would show that no to be True. By and large, Democratic presidencies over the past 30 years have done more to grow America than Republican ones, and no Presidency has ever "destroyed" America. There are too many checks and balances, and if nothing else, Harris and Walz have shown that first and foremost they will operate within the "American System".

A Trump presidency, on the other hand, would likely result in chaos and dysfunction, and not because the Democrats would do nothing but try and undermine his Presidency (which, they would do lets be honest). Rather, this is primarily because of his consistent disregard for the traditional American system of government. Trump has repeatedly shown that he views institutional checks and balances not as vital components of democracy, but as obstacles to his personal power. His approach to governance is characterized by an impulse to circumvent established norms, using executive orders and loyalists to push his agenda while undermining the role of Congress, the courts, and regulatory agencies. This leads to gridlock, as his actions often prompt legal battles and resistance from other branches of government, stalling progress. Even more troubling is the real risk that Trump would take more aggressive steps to dismantle the system itself, seeking to concentrate power solely in his hands. His public statements and actions suggest a desire to weaken democratic institutions, erode the independence of the judiciary, and silence dissent. Rather than operating within the constitutional framework, Trump’s approach raises the alarming possibility of a leader who believes he is above the law, threatening the very foundations of American democracy and risking a slide toward authoritarian rule.
 
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