That disappears quickly if Harris picks Mark Kelly. Vance was a combat correspondent- basically a uniformed news reporter. Kelly was an attack pilot with combat missions in Desert Storm. Vance’s military service is honest, laudable, and modest, and can afford modest advantage… But not if it ends up being in comparison to someone like Kelly.
US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence
- Thread starter kkwd
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That disappears quickly if Harris picks Mark Kelly. Vance was a combat correspondent- basically a uniformed news reporter. Kelly was an attack pilot with combat missions in Desert Storm. Vance’s military service is honest, laudable, and modest, and can afford modest advantage… But not if it ends up being in comparison to someone like Kelly.
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That’s a good point. The US public seems to think that the US military is a foregone conclusion for the GOP (it isn’t, at least in the Officer corps).
If Kelly becomes the Dem VP pick, it will probably blow some folks’ minds and cause some cognitive dissonance amongst the conservative “vet bro” crowd.
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Have the conditions been met? What station is going to carry it? Who are the interviewers? What is the format? Lots of questions that need settling.
Trump agreed, without reservation, to the rules the dems put in place for the last debate and started the fire to finish bidens run.
Perhaps the dems should afford Trump the same respect and let him set the rules for the next debate. After all that is the fair and equitable solution, is it not?
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Why do people 'equate' different military roles. Many who join have no say in the role they are given. If a person served honorably, that is all that matters.
‘They also serve who only stand and wait.’
~ Milton ~
They set new conditions based on the fact that Obama hadn’t endorsed her. That’s now done.
They agreed to the debate and their conditions were also considered. This wasn’t just the Dems making these decisions. What has changed other than the presumptive candidate (he debated Biden who also wasn’t confirmed at the time and agreed to the debates even with no Dem candidate confirmed)
Rules for debates are set and agreed upon by both parties.
It seems though that Trump isn’t ready or willing to debate Harris at this time.
One would think that one’s candidate would be ready and willing regardless who they are facing.
Retired AF Guy
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Don't forget that Kelly was also an astronaut; that resounds with a lot of people.
I’m sure some folks will minimize all that with the right prompting.
Blackadder1916
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While I cringe at edging into comparative whataboutism;
Vance is hampered by perceptions of his relationship with a couch.
Vance's credentials as a politician is he won a senate race in 2022, so he has a little over a year and a half as a senator. His committee experience is:
Harris won election and served for 7 years (two terms) as DA of San Francisco; elected and re-elected as AG of California for 6 years; elected to US Senate and served 4 years before being elected VP. Her committee experience was:
Vance is hampered by perceptions of his relationship with a couch.
Vance's credentials as a politician is he won a senate race in 2022, so he has a little over a year and a half as a senator. His committee experience is:
- Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
- Financial Institutions and Consumer Protection subcommittee
- Housing, Transportation, and Community Development subcommittee
- Securities, Insurance, and Investment subcommittee
- Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation
- Communications, Media, and Broadband subcommittee
- Oceans, Fisheries, Climate Change, and Manufacturing subcommittee
- Space and Science subcommittee
- Senate Special Committee on Aging
Harris won election and served for 7 years (two terms) as DA of San Francisco; elected and re-elected as AG of California for 6 years; elected to US Senate and served 4 years before being elected VP. Her committee experience was:
- Committee on the Budget
- Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
- Subcommittee on Federal Spending Oversight and Emergency Management
- Subcommittee on Regulatory Affairs and Federal Management
- Select Committee on Intelligence
- Committee on the Judiciary
- Subcommittee on the Constitution
- Subcommittee on Oversight, Agency Action, Federal Rights and Federal Courts
- Subcommittee on Privacy, Technology and the Law
Blackadder1916
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He is also married to former congresswoman Gabby Gifford and brings with that a double edged sword; a counterpoint to any claim that Trump makes about taking a bullet for democracy, however Kelly/Gifford have been vocal advocates of gun control measures in the wake of Gifford's shooting. The single issue 2nd amendment folks will not be enticed by his he-man history, so they would probably remain in the Trump camp regardless of who was on the Dem's ticket and the single issue gun control types are probably already firmly in the Democratic camp.
He also has an identical he-man twin brother. If he was elected as VP, that would be a field day for the loony toon, tin foil hat, conspiracy theorists who would claim that it was his brother and not him in any number of scenarios.
He’s also been a strong voice for fixing the border so he can work across party lines on that issue.
Yes, I agree. I brought that up only to extent that choosing Kelly would neuter any ‘veteran advantage’ Vance can bring to the ticket, and that the details of their respective service heavily favours Kelly should anyone be the sort to put much stock in what one did in service.
Of greater relevance, Kelly, limited as his senate time is, will have nearly twice as much service in the Senate as Vance by the time of the election. Kelly, in the simplest terms, has twice as much time on earth as an adult, doing all the various things he has done in his career. He has a much longer and fuller CV to point to.
The Republicans will find a way to argue that means he’s “not down to Earth” or something. Where there’s a will there’s a smear.
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He's an elitist; thinks he's better than you.
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Once more, Trump hasn’t said he won't debate. He's waiting until there is an official candidate as selected at the DNC. Sure, Harris supposedly has the nod according to possible supporters. Nothing says they will vote that way though. She has big endorsements. Let's just wait until she has fully and legally been chosen by all voting members of the DNC at the convention. As we've seen, things changed drastically for Biden and Harris over a single weekend. We've still got time til the convention. I assume we will hear something from Trump after that takes place. We'll just have to,wait and see in a couple of weeks.
Edit - Biden was taken down in a coup. This negates all the votes he originally recieved. I'm sure there are some dems not happy about their vote being dismissed so easily.
Harris has been annointed, outside the DNC, by some elites. The dems cannot defend that unless they hold the convention and a majority of normal members vote for her.
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The second debate, hosted by ABC, had a date that a Trump committed to. Biden was not yet the convention-elected candidate either. If Trump wants to paint a picture of this as anything other than backing out, fine, but as it stands he seems unwilling to commit himself to debating the Democratic presidential nominee on the date and network he previously committed to debating the Democratic presidential nominee.
Trump could very easily come out and simply commit to debating whoever the Democrats choose on the date and time he already committed to. There’s no reason the choice of candidate should impact Trump’s willingness to follow through on his commitment to the September debate.
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We're running in circles. I can wait until after the convention.
I think the statement that you all are hanging your view on is pretty darn clear.
'Give me your candidate after they are legally elected after the convention. Then we'll debate.'
I don't know how much clearer it has to be. He is not running away. Nor is he afraid to debate Harris. Those canards are laughable.
Let's just wait and see what happens when she is legally elected by the whole DNC. Then we can revisit.
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But he's already debated the presumptive Democrat presidential nominee. So clearly they didn't have an issue debating the Democrat nominee before they were legally selected at the DNC. So, why are they changing their stance now?
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You're doing it again... Weren't you supposed to be avoiding this? Be strong, man.
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Did we miss Biden being legally elected by the DNC prior to the 27 June debate?
But he already debated Biden once and already specifically committed to debate him again on September 10th hosted by ABC. All of this before the Democratic convention confirmed a nominee. So no, we’re not going in circles; you’re trying to sidestep relevant facts and context. Trying to tenet because the Dems haven’t formally confirmed a candidate yet appears nothing more than a weak pretext.
Brad Sallows
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The Trump campaign agreed to conditions approximately dictated by the Biden campaign to suit the Biden campaign and provide what they thought was a setting of strongest advantage for Biden (friendly network, friendly moderators, no audience, muted mikes, etc). I suppose the Trump campaign thought Trump could overcome those advantages, and that the cost of those concessions was worth it to get Biden into a couple of more-than-a-few-minutes sessions during which he'd have to eventually think on his feet and express himself spontaneously. There wasn't really any mystery as to who the Democratic candidate in the room would be.
The situation has changed; it's rational for the Trump campaign to want to renegotiate the debate conditions to concede fewer advantages to Harris. People can put whatever spin they want on it - Trump's a coward, Trump thinks he's outclassed - but it is all just about choosing the ground.
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