US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[Maxman1]

Weird is the right word.

Deranged is more apt IMHO.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

None. But if the VP doesn't stand apart from the administration on policy, it's also her policy. I expect a Harris administration would be under more influence of the leftmost progressives of the party than the Biden administration already is. She isn't notable for independent thinking and well-reasoned policy.

Neither is her boss

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No not disconcerting at all…
/sarcasm

Deploying on U.S. Soil: How Trump Would Use Soldiers Against Riots, Crime and Migrants

The former president’s vision of using the military to enforce the law domestically would carry profound implications for civil liberties.

www.nytimes.com

1967 Detroit Michigan
12th Street Riot

2,000 Detroit police
350 State police.
7,100 Michigan National Guard,
4, 700 paratroopers of the 82nd and 101st Airborne.

It took two days of fighting after the Airborne arrived to quell the riot.
Rioters were met with Hueys, tracks and everything up to and including .50 BMG.

It all started when the DPD raided a blind pig.
It wasn’t disconcerting to anyone at the time, except the rioters.

 

[RangerRay]

That hot-bed of woke Marxist revolutionary ideology, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, is not impressed.

VFW Admonishes Former President for Medal of Honor Remarks

On Thursday, former President Donald Trump spoke at an event where he made some flippant remarks about the Medal of Honor and the heroes who have received it.

www.vfw.org

 

[TacticalTea]

That hot-bed of woke Marxist revolutionary ideology, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, is not impressed.

VFW Admonishes Former President for Medal of Honor Remarks

On Thursday, former President Donald Trump spoke at an event where he made some flippant remarks about the Medal of Honor and the heroes who have received it.

www.vfw.org

"I must question whether they would discharge their responsibilities to our men and women in uniform with the seriousness and discernment necessary for such a powerful position"

Thankfully we know the answer to this idiotic question.

His opponents, Hillary and Biden gave us the Benghazi and Afghan disasters, whereas Trump brought us victory against ISIS and peace in the Middle East.

 

[brihard]

"I must question whether they would discharge their responsibilities to our men and women in uniform with the seriousness and discernment necessary for such a powerful position"

Thankfully we know the answer to this idiotic question.

His opponents, Hillary and Biden gave us the Benghazi and Afghan disasters, whereas Trump brought us victory against ISIS and peace in the Middle East.

Trump abandoned the Kurds and both established and set in motion the plan to abandon the Afghans. They all suck in that respect. Biden, at least, is luke-warmly supporting Ukraine against the ultimate aggression they’re currently subject to.

One of the choices subjects other nations to the the fickle and self-serving whims of American interests. The other will subject the rest of the world to the fickle and self-serving whims of Donald Trump’s interests.

Trump has made his contempt of the men and women in uniformed service clear time and again, however much he may try to walk it back, or others try to hand-wave and bag-lick it away.

 

[Lumber]

"I must question whether they would discharge their responsibilities to our men and women in uniform with the seriousness and discernment necessary for such a powerful position"

Thankfully we know the answer to this idiotic question.

His opponents, Hillary and Biden gave us the Benghazi and Afghan disasters, whereas Trump brought us victory against ISIS and peace in the Middle East.

Yes, we are "peace" in the middle east.

“If given the choice between Righteousness and Peace, I choose Righteousness.”

 

[KevinB]

Yes, we are "peace" in the middle east.

“If given the choice between Righteousness and Peace, I choose Righteousness.”

The spot on the Venn Diagram’s where Lumber and I intersect.

 

[TacticalTea]

Yes, we are "peace" in the middle east.

“If given the choice between Righteousness and Peace, I choose Righteousness.”

The spot on the Venn Diagram’s where Lumber and I intersect.

I think you two got your wars mixed up.

Where was the choice for righteousness instead of peace, as far as the Middle East is concerned?

You might be thinking of Ukraine.

 

[TacticalTea]

Trump abandoned the Kurds

A difficult decision. Yet, ISIS was defeated.

and both established and set in motion the plan to abandon the Afghans. They all suck in that respect. Biden, at least, is luke-warmly supporting Ukraine against the ultimate aggression they’re currently subject to.

We didn't abandon the Afghans. If the Taliban had it so easy, it's because that's how they want to live. Who are we to dictate how they should live?

One of the choices subjects other nations to the the fickle and self-serving whims of American interests. The other will subject the rest of the world to the fickle and self-serving whims of Donald Trump’s interests.

That doesn't sound biased at all. Reality is both will subject others to their idea of America and American values.

Trump has made his contempt of the men and women in uniformed service clear time and again, however much he may try to walk it back, or others try to hand-wave and bag-lick it away.

"Orange man bad"

Overstated and inconsequential. We've been over this a million times. Results and facts over feelings. I'd rather have a commander who gets us victory than one who sweet-talks us in defeat.

 

[KevinB]

A difficult decision. Yet, ISIS was defeated.

I say pardon?

We didn't abandon the Afghans.

WTF???

If the Taliban had it so easy, it's because that's how they want to live. Who are we to dictate how they should live?

That is akin to justifying a ruthless gang takeover

That doesn't sound biased at all. Reality is both will subject others to their idea of America and American values.

"Orange man bad"

Overstated and inconsequential. We've been over this a million times. Results and facts over feelings. I'd rather have a commander who gets us victory than one who sweet-talks us in defeat.

Your idea of victory is a little different than mine.

 

[TacticalTea]

I say pardon?

WTF???

That is akin to justifying a ruthless gang takeover

Your idea of victory is a little different than mine.

Kevin, you're better than that.

Say what you want to say instead of reactions devoid of meaning.

 

[KevinB]

Kevin, you're better than that.

Say what you want to say instead of reactions devoid of meaning.

ISIS is still around. Defeated they are definitely not.

Trump sold out the Afghans, negotiated with the Taliban without the Afghan government, and pulled back troops and support. Then did nothing when the Taliban didn’t follow the agreements.

To me Trump is no better than Obama was.

 

[Brad Sallows]

ISIS is still around. Defeated they are definitely not.

Trump sold out the Afghans, negotiated with the Taliban without the Afghan government, and pulled back troops and support. Then did nothing when the Taliban didn’t follow the agreements.

To me Trump is no better than Obama was.

The over-arching lesson is that the US shouldn't get involved in anyone's long-term fights, or places where long-held grudges are sitting below the surface. Someone always abandons the field before enough time has elapsed for a social/political solution to take root.

 

[brihard]

A difficult decision. Yet, ISIS was defeated.

He abandoned the Kurds to face attack by Turkey. ISIS has also not been defeated in anything close to totality. They no longer have sovereign control over territory, but they remain a player. If you think ISIS is defeated, there are a lot of people still fighting them you should probably let know of that.

We didn't abandon the Afghans. If the Taliban had it so easy, it's because that's how they want to live. Who are we to dictate how they should live?

We abandoned the Afghans. That’s why, among other things, a number of them fell to the deaths from the landing gear of departing C-17s.

That doesn't sound biased at all. Reality is both will subject others to their idea of America and American values.

"Orange man bad"

See, e.g., Trump’s attempted shakedown of Ukraine for domestic political advantage. He denied military aid in an attempt to extort a criminal investigation of the son of his election opponent. That’s not ‘Orange man bad’, that’s reality with receipts. I hardly need point out why withheld military aid in that context kinda matters. If past behaviour is an indicator of future performance, there’s no reason to believe Trump would not sell Ukraine down the river again if it suited his personal advantage.

Overstated and inconsequential. We've been over this a million times. Results and facts over feelings. I'd rather have a commander who gets us victory than one who sweet-talks us in defeat.

See facts as outlined above. My feelings don’t matter so I don’t pull them into these threads. Sometimes I point out various facts - geopolitical events, phone call transcripts, court affidavits, and such - and some people don’t like it. Fortunately I consider the feelings of other thread participants as irrelevant as my own. While I do have feelings about Trump’s displayed contempt for service members, it’s the repeatedly displayed contempt itself that matters, not how I feel about it. But those displays of contempt have been well discussed and documented on this site so I needn’t go over them again.

 

[TacticalTea]

ISIS is still around. Defeated they are definitely not.

Trump sold out the Afghans, negotiated with the Taliban without the Afghan government, and pulled back troops and support. Then did nothing when the Taliban didn’t follow the agreements.

To me Trump is no better than Obama was.

ISIS is conventionally defeated.

That doesn't mean it has ceased to exist.

But it is not nearly as much of a threat as it once was.

 

[Remius]

ISIS is conventionally defeated.

ISIS is hardly conventional.

That doesn't mean it has ceased to exist.

That’s what everyone is saying. Glad you agree.

But it is not nearly as much of a threat as it once was.

Yet it is still very much a threat.

 

[suffolkowner]

I feel like our buddies Putin and Assad and Erdogan had the bigger impact on ISIS and the Kurds until they were sold out to the others

 

[KevinB]

The over-arching lesson is that the US shouldn't get involved in anyone's long-term fights, or places where long-held grudges are sitting below the surface. Someone always abandons the field before enough time has elapsed for a social/political solution to take root.

I think the actual lesson is have an actual plan. Not let some moron who has never done anything but take a course at school design a ‘strategy’.

No Western population likes a pointless conflict, and if you don’t have a good plan and good implementation of that plan, that’s what tends to occur.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I think the actual lesson is have an actual plan ....

For before/what if, during AND after.