US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs ??? - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[Brad Sallows]

You seem to be minimizing what she has done and aggrandizing Vance’s record.

Comparing a presidential candidate to a VP candidate is an odd choice of framing, but for those who want to make it the point stands that his undertakings are a bit broader than hers. If Kelly gets the Democratic VP slot, then both parties will have VP candidates whose life experience is broader than that of the presidential candidates.

The assessment I most commonly encounter (from US pundits across the spectrum) about the importance of VP candidates is that they aren't. Head-to-head comparisons don't matter. Their debate doesn't matter. Their strengths don't compensate for presidential shortcomings. At most they are usually chosen for demographic appeal (where the presidential candidate might be weak), or perceived advantage in a swing state. This election was looking like a bit of an outlier, with people able to reasonably calculate that either presidential candidate might not make it to the end of term (Biden: general health and mental fitness; Trump: legal liabilities), so the VP choices mattered more than usual. Harris's VP choice doesn't matter. Trump's: maybe a little.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Edit - Biden was taken down in a coup. This negates all the votes he originally recieved. I'm sure there are some dems not happy about their vote being dismissed so easily.
Harris has been annointed, outside the DNC, by some elites. The dems cannot defend that unless they hold the convention and a majority of normal members vote for her.

Biden voluntarily stepped aside. Everyone knows pressure was brought to bear, but the simple fact that he took the step matters. There is nothing wrong with his endorsement of Harris and encouragement to his delegates to support her. There is nothing wrong with all the other endorsements of Harris. There is usually a highly favoured candidate by convention time. The fact that the convention will simply affirm what everyone already knows along with being a party and a pep rally is the usual outcome.

 

[dimsum]

Edit - Biden was taken down in a coup. This negates all the votes he originally recieved. I'm sure there are some dems not happy about their vote being dismissed so easily.
Harris has been annointed, outside the DNC, by some elites. The dems cannot defend that unless they hold the convention and a majority of normal members vote for her.

Biden messing up on the debate and then stepping aside due to pressure from his party is not a “coup”. On this side of the border, if JT stepped down tomorrow based on the LPC share of polled votes, and with LPC members publicly calling on him to step aside, would that be an LPC coup?

You know what was an attempted self-coup? Jan 6, 2021.

 

[Remius]

Comparing a presidential candidate to a VP candidate is an odd choice of framing, but for those who want to make it the point stands that his undertakings are a bit broader than hers. If Kelly gets the Democratic VP slot, then both parties will have VP candidates whose life experience is broader than that of the presidential candidates.

That is exactly what they are doing. That she was the DEI VIP pick. She’s the presidential pick because she is the current pragmatic choice. Vance’s life experience is hardly more broad than either Trump, Harris or Kelly. He’s the least qualified of the 4.

The assessment I most commonly encounter (from US pundits across the spectrum) about the importance of VP candidates is that they aren't. Head-to-head comparisons don't matter. Their debate doesn't matter. Their strengths don't compensate for presidential shortcomings. At most they are usually chosen for demographic appeal (where the presidential candidate might be weak), or perceived advantage in a swing state. This election was looking like a bit of an outlier, with people able to reasonably calculate that either presidential candidate might not make it to the end of term (Biden: general health and mental fitness; Trump: legal liabilities), so the VP choices mattered more than usual. Harris's VP choice doesn't matter. Trump's: maybe a little.

Harris’s VP choice absolutely does matter as it will be based on what maximizes her chances at winning electoral votes.

Trump’s VP pick mattered as it was a message that they were doubling down on MAGA based on the situation at that time and they didn’t think they needed to broaden their vote. If Harris was running before Vance was picked they never would have picked Vance.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Did we miss Biden being legally elected by the DNC prior to the 27 June debate?

He was the incumbent president. Incumbent presidents have the right of way. And yes, he was elected. Then all those votes were overridden and discarded by a few party elites. Biden made the decision to step away. It was either that or face the 25th amendment and lose what he had left of his presidency. There was nothing honorable or patriotic about his decision. Jill and Hunter want to wring as much of the gig out of Joe that they can.

 

[Remius]

Fox News is reporting these numbers. Now I doubt these stay like this (and other polls are likely showing different but they all show a narrower race than when Biden was the candidate) as Harris will drop a bit after her honeymoon phase. But they’ll likely get another boost after their VP pick and again after their convention. They are in a position of momentum. The GOP knows this and are testing a variety of attack lines which only makes them seem a bit disjointed.

 

[Remius]

He was the incumbent president. Incumbent presidents have the right of way. And yes, he was elected. Then all those votes were overridden and discarded by a few party elites. Biden made the decision to step away. It was either that or face the 25th amendment and lose what he had left of his presidency. There was nothing honorable or patriotic about his decision. Jill and Hunter want to wring as much of the gig out of Joe that they can.

Is there evidence he was facing the 25th amendment? Seems like that would have been a dumb move. Pretty sure that’s just fantasy. And I have asked this before, under what section of the 25th?