US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs ??? - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[The Bread Guy]

That's direct fundraising. PACs and other dark money can be even more influential.

One of the PACs alone is reporting $150M in new money since JB said he wouldn't be running, with another reporting just under $47M by hour 7 after JB's announcement

Donations pour in as Biden steps aside for Harris: ‘Biggest fundraising day of 2024’

Liberal PAC said that it was ‘the biggest fundraising day of the 2024 cycle’

www.independent.co.uk

... I’m also flabbergasted at how much Americans spend on election campaigns…

Big money, indeed.

 

[brihard]

Seems to me has risked it all for his country, from his standpoint, and likely a huge portion of American voters.

Trump could have stayed out of politics entirely and lived a happy billionaire lifestyle. He could have avoided all the drama since he walked down that escalator, including threats to his character and threats to jail him. He was even donating the POTUS salary, so selfish... And now we've seen as close as a successful assassination attempt as we've ever seen. He's grievances with how America has been run over the last decades is well documented (Oprah etc), and he finally made a move (2015).

Unless, since becoming POTUS, his personal wealth has vastly increased and he's remained safe and secure, which I don't see evidence it has, and by many accounts here he is a terrible businessman and isn't as wealthy as he states, then your assertions are that he is doing this for selfish reasons just don't rate. I'm fairly confident a huge percentage of American voters see it this way too.

Trying to hide behind presidential immunity to dodge the legal consequences of his own choices is not an act of selflessness or personal sacrifice. He faces potential criminal jeopardy because of his refusal to respect the lawful and peaceful transition of power, and the abuse of his position to allegedly keep classified material he’s not entitled to. Being held accountable ≠ being a victim.

Yes, he could have avoided a great deal of drama had he not chosen to create it.

 

[QV]

That's certainly one take. It seems to me all the lawfare cases against Trump are not going well.

He didn't create Crossfire Hurricane, for example. Trump has said some dumb shit, but nothing arising to the level of vitriol and abuse of power that has and continues to occur.

Your allegations about "refusal to respect lawful and peaceful transition of power" ignore reality. He literally stepped aside on January 20th. I don't recall he had to be forcibly removed from the WH... do you? And if you say "Jan 6th!" well then I know you're being disingenuous. If you want to argue his calls for review, but ignore that has been happening from both sides practically every election at one level or another, then again you're being disingenuous.

Almost every scandal that has been brought on Trump has been either created or absurdly heightened by his political opposition directly because he is not "establishment" and he will upset their apple cart.

 

[brihard]

That's certainly one take. It seems to me all the lawfare cases against Trump are not going well.

New York: convicted on all counts by a jury.

Mar-A-Lago: the dismissal is laughable and will definitely be reversed on appeal to the 11th. Thus far Judge Canon has caused delay after delay, but the prosecution has prevailed on anything substantive beyond mere scheduling.

Washington federal trial: Simply in the queue, and once the briefings pertaining to the immunity decision wrap up, the prosecution will be prepared to carry on with the evidentiary hearings regarding the rebuttal of immunity for non-core official acts. The prosecution has not been defeated or derailed.

Georgia RICO: Delayed due to the prosecutor’s poor choices, but a realistic worst case sees the case transferred to someone else to prosecute. The evidentiary basis of the investigation is not under threat.

Inasmuch as delay is often an inevitable part of the criminal justice process, the three cases that remain underway, well, they remain underway.

He didn't create Crossfire Hurricane, for example. Trump has said some dumb shit, but nothing arising to the level of vitriol and abuse of power that has and continues to occur.

Whataboutism and moving of goalposts.

Your allegations about "refusal to respect lawful and peaceful transition of power" ignore reality. He literally stepped aside on January 20th. I don't recall he had to be forcibly removed from the WH... do you? And if you say "Jan 6th!" well then I know you're being disingenuous. If you want to argue his calls for review, but ignore that has been happening from both sides practically every election at one level or another, then again you're being disingenuous.

Found the guy who didn’t read the DC indictment. I don’t have to argue his calls for review; the dozens of them all failed in court, and they were in such grossly bad faith in some cases that several of Trump’s lawyers are either no longer lawyers, or have been suspended or otherwise sanctioned. You’ll note I said “lawful and peaceful transition of power”. You even quoted that. What I’m referring to is the quite apparent conspiracy to try to subvert the will of the electorate with fraudulent electors in several states, a number of whom have already been convicted. His own vice president has scorned him for putting himself before the constitution. Trump’s efforts went outside the rule of law.

Almost every scandal that has been brought on Trump has been either created or absurdly heightened by his political opposition directly because he is not "establishment" and he will upset their apple cart.

That’s nice, but I’ve shown receipts. You can take it up with the various grand and petit juries who have returned a multitude of convictions and felony indictments.

 

[QV]

New York: convicted on all counts by a jury.

Mar-A-Lago: the dismissal is laughable and will definitely be reversed on appeal to the 11th. Thus far Judge Canon has caused delay after delay, but the prosecution has prevailed on anything substantive beyond mere scheduling.

Washington federal trial: Simply in the queue, and once the briefings pertaining to the immunity decision wrap up, the prosecution will be prepared to carry on with the evidentiary hearings regarding the rebuttal of immunity for non-core official acts. The prosecution has not been defeated or derailed.

Georgia RICO: Delayed due to the prosecutor’s poor choices, but a realistic worst case sees the case transferred to someone else to prosecute. The evidentiary basis of the investigation is not under threat.

Inasmuch as delay is often an inevitable part of the criminal justice process, the three cases that remain underway, well, they remain underway.



Whataboutism and moving of goalposts.



Found the guy who didn’t read the DC indictment. I don’t have to argue his calls for review; the dozens of them all failed in court, and they were in such grossly bad faith in some cases that several of Trump’s lawyers are either no longer lawyers, or have been suspended or otherwise sanctioned. You’ll note I said “lawful and peaceful transition of power”. You even quoted that. What I’m referring to is the quite apparent conspiracy to try to subvert the will of the electorate with fraudulent electors in several states, a number of whom have already been convicted. His own vice president has scorned him for putting himself before the constitution. Trump’s efforts went outside the rule of law.



That’s nice, but I’ve shown receipts. You can take it up with the various grand and petit juries who have returned a multitude of convictions and felony indictments.

I find it hilarious you have this absolute faith in all prosecutions and acts against Trump except for the proven failures or malfeasance then those are laughable or whataboutism. New York is laughable. And what I've stated is not whataboutism, those are facts and examples. A rotten apple can indeed ruin the whole bunch (trust in institutions).

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So it seems that Harris has raised 81 million in 24 hours. By any metric that is not bad.

I’m also flabbergasted at how much Americans spend on election campaigns…

I'm guessing a lot of that is what was being held back from Biden. The reality is, can she sustain that support? She hasn't even made her coronation speech yet. Nor have people had a chance to judge her on the campaign trail. She also got Biden's money. It'll be interesting to hear her claim her real done nothing record over the last 3.5 years. She'll likely try to ride Biden's coat tails, but eventually someone will be asking exactly what she did the whole time she was VP. Which is nothing.

As for Biden himself, he didn't give up his run for altruistic reasons, like love of country or its citizens. He doesn't know what day it is half the time. The family business is finished. There is no more influence to pedal. Someone finally convinced Jill and Hunter it was in their best interests to stop the Weekend at Bernies charade. Maybe a library they can cash in on or a Clinton style foundation to make money off of.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I find it hilarious you have this absolute faith in all prosecutions and acts against Trump except for the proven failures or malfeasance then those are laughable or whataboutism. New York is laughable.

Better or worse than not seeming concerned about some decisions made by judges nominated by defendants whose case they were trying?

 

[brihard]

I find it hilarious you have this absolute faith in all prosecutions and acts against Trump except for the proven failures or malfeasance then those are laughable or whataboutism. New York is laughable. And what I've stated is not whataboutism, those are facts and examples. A rotten apple can indeed ruin the whole bunch (trust in institutions).

I do not have absolute faith, I’m merely taking the indictments and the publicly available evidence at face value.

You may consider New York ‘laughable’, but I can think of one felon who I don’t recall laughing about it.

I describe the dismissal in Florida as laughable based on quite a bit of knowledgeable legal analysis that I’ve read which is well grounded in sufficiently analogous case law regarding the appointment of special counsel. Cannon has take a single member SCOTUS dissent to absurd lengths, and it’s going to be reversed. You’re completely free to disagree. I feel comfortable committing to my opinion on this and that it will age well.

 

[Remius]

I'm guessing a lot of that is what was being held back from Biden.

I’m not sure if that is how it works. It seems to be grassroots fundraising based on her becoming the presumptive nominee. I may be wrong but I don’t think money can be transferred in this short of a period of time. Happy to be corrected though.

The reality is, can she sustain that support? She hasn't even made her coronation speech yet. Nor have people had a chance to judge her on the campaign trail.

That is the big question. Can she sustain it. It’s only be a couple of days. So I’m sure the bump will wear off and the real fight will start. But the GOP’s game plan of contrasting Trump to Biden is out the window. They are likely scrambling to get something else going.

She also got Biden's money.

She will eventually. Like I said, no clue how it works. I’m sure they are looking into it. Not sure why that would be an issue though.

It'll be interesting to hear her claim her real done nothing record over the last 3.5 years. She'll likely try to ride Biden's coat tails, but eventually someone will be asking exactly what she did the whole time she was VP. Which is nothing.

Not to start a fight or anything but she is the VP and was until now on the same ticket. Saying she has done nothing or has no record is a bit partisan and disingenuous.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/kamala-harris-presidential-candidate-1.7270742

This article lists some of her accomplishments/files etc but admits that it is a mixed record. Trump didn’t exactly have much of a record when he ran the first time. She also had a life as a senator and as a AG prior to all of this.

As for Biden himself, he didn't give up his run for altruistic reasons, like love of country or its citizens. He doesn't know what day it is half the time.

No, there was an enough pressure for him to come to the réalisation that staying on was not a good option. Normally that is when people step down. He made that call (and those in his orbit) and it was the right one.

The family business is finished. There is no more influence to pedal. Someone finally convinced Jill and Hunter it was in their best interests to stop the Weekend at Bernies charade. Maybe a library they can cash in on or a Clinton style foundation to make money off of.

Do you have a reference for any of that or is that just musing?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

. New York is laughable.

How so?

They have elections, elect people to public positions (including judges and attorney's general (and I just don't see the value of politicizing all of this).

Is it because their political principles / religious beliefs / moral compasses offend you in some way? Or they don't match yours?

Challenging question - can you name a Democrat state that isn't laughable?

 

[dimsum]

Almost every scandal that has been brought on Trump has been either created or absurdly heightened by his political opposition directly because he is not "establishment" and he will upset their apple cart.

Did the Dems also tell his senior staff, including his former VP, to publicly criticize him? Or are those folks also part of the “Deep State” that somehow fooled him for 4+ years?

Former Trump officials are among the most vocal opponents of returning him to the White House

As Trump seeks the presidency a third time, he’s being shadowed by a chorus of people who served in his administration who have become sharp critics, some offering dire predictions about his return to power.

apnews.com

 

[suffolkowner]

Did the Dems also tell his senior staff, including his former VP, to publicly criticize him? Or are those folks also part of the “Deep State” that somehow fooled him for 4+ years?

Former Trump officials are among the most vocal opponents of returning him to the White House

As Trump seeks the presidency a third time, he’s being shadowed by a chorus of people who served in his administration who have become sharp critics, some offering dire predictions about his return to power.

apnews.com

40 of 44 members of Trumps cabinet wont even vote for him according to the internet.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Better or worse than not seeming concerned about some decisions made by judges nominated by defendants whose case they were trying?

Or judges that were appointed because of their connections to the current government. Or working with prosecutors paid for by Soros.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

 

[Remius]

40 of 44 members of Trumps cabinet wont even vote for him according to the internet.

Should also be noted that a full half of current living ex GOP presidents did not go to the RNC conference.

Silver lining is that at least half did show up.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Challenging question - can you name a Democrat state that isn't laughable?

Not off hand.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

40 of 44 members of Trumps cabinet wont even vote for him according to the internet.

According to the internet. Well, that's as solid a source as any I've heard. Not much to dispute there. Now is that the real internet? Or the one Al Gore invented?