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US to close fast food in Afghan bases - Timmies & Greenbean will stay

NL_engineer said:
Well another good example of senior leadership out of touch with the troops.  I think before people make these decisions they should look at its affect on troops; and not stop as far as the wire. 
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I am sure the decision makers did think of the people (despite the poor communication of intent to the troops).

Have you ever been involved (even on the periphery) with stratigic lines of communication?  An airport only has so much capacity to bring things into a theatre of operation.  There is a fininte number of flights that can come or go in a day, there is a finite amount of space on the ramps, there is a limit to the rate at which crews & equipment can off-load materiel, etc.  If APOD congestion is causing the US is to have trouble getting ammunition, parts, consumables and other war materiel into country, then it is a military imparative for reductions in non-essential flow through that APOD ... even if that means no more McWoppers.
 
MCG said:
An airport only has so much capacity to bring things into a theatre of operation.  There is a fininte number of flights that can come or go in a day, there is a finite amount of space on the ramps, there is a limit to the rate at which crews & equipment can off-load materiel, etc. 
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I was always under the impression that the majority of the food at the boardwalk was trucked in via Pakistan, hence why Burger King has constant shortages of nearly everything and why Tim Horton's had no baked goods for two months.  I know TGIF gets stuff via Dubai, but I'm pretty certain much of the supplies come on  trucks.

This was obviously a military decision - I wonder if any consideration was given to the thousands of civilians that live and work at KAF, many who have been here for four or five or six years.
 
I remember reading an article on Timmies that pointed out that everything is brought in by air.
 
Go look at the statements that are being overlooked because of the "amusement park" comment.  The stratigic lines of communication are being taxed (be that air or land), and the military needs cannot keep competing with the ammenities:
Yrys said:
Command Sgt Maj Michael T Hall says ... "Supplying non-essential
luxuries to big bases like Bagram and Kandahar makes it harder to get essential
items to combat outposts and forward operating bases, where troops fighting
every day need to be resupplied with ammunition, food and water."
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Spent 7 months in KAF, worked long hours (maybe Loachman will argue?!?) and didn't care much for the Boardwalk's amenities.  Yes, it was nice to take a break and go "window shop" from time to time (like once a month), but for what I actually spent - time and money wise -  I wouldn't have missed it much.  TGI Friday was just getting built by the time I left, but I never visited the Ekos and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I bought fast food.  Subway was always out of everything (Bologne & chilies sub anyone?) and since I don't normally visit BK and Pizza Hut in Canada, I didn't see much of a reason to go once overseas.

Timmies was a nice break however and I'm glad it's staying.  Maybe people liked Greenbeans, I didn't care for it, especially that you could get Espresso right at the DFACs. 

I never had the chance to see any of the tour shows and, living in the weather heaven and working nights, I didn't care much for their daytime rehearsals.

So, in short, I'm sure lots of people will miss their comforts, but personally, it didn't change my life during my time there and if (or is it "when") I go back, I wouldn't miss those places that much if they were gone.

If they get rid of the boardwalk area, what will happen of the hockey rink?  If hockey gets banned because it's not "war like" enough, I think there'll be a riot!

Cheers
 
CanadianTire said:
I was always under the impression that the majority of the food at the boardwalk was trucked in via Pakistan, hence why Burger King has constant shortages of nearly everything and why Tim Horton's had no baked goods for two months.  I know TGIF gets stuff via Dubai, but I'm pretty certain much of the supplies come on  trucks.
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And those trucks need fuel and escorts, paid for and supplied by whom? Truck or airplane, it's still unneccesary lenghtening of the supply chain.

This was obviously a military decision - I wonder if any consideration was given to the thousands of civilians that live and work at KAF, many who have been here for four or five or six years.
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Dry your eyes. Those civvies made a choice to work on KAF, and are mostly well renumerated for it.
 
I'm still kind of ticked off that the one time I had made plans for some free time at night to see the Kid Rock concert in the open area he ended up bailing and holding it in the incredibly small (re US only) US room.

Which meant the whole tour was 16 hour work days (with a break during a lull for the gym), go back to the shacks, play PSP for an hour, shower, repeat, with the exception of the hour at the market every week.

Damn you Kid Rock!
 
Petamocto said:
Damn you Kid Rock!
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I heard that Kid Rock changed venue because he just didn't want you there.
;D

(j/k)
I think that the message of the "why" these things are being shut down is being missed by the good General et al.  When they use words like "luxury" and "non-essential", it makes it sound as though the troops in KAF are getting comfy chairs and the feather treatment.  They also use false dichotomies such as "We can't supply the FOBs because we have Pizza Hut".  FALSEHOOD!

If supplying those places is a strain on an already fragile system, then say so.  Or simply state that "they are last in the order of priority for supply", and explain why they aren't open all the time.

But as pointed out, they are a great place to escape for a few moments.  One day, mid tour, the Ops O, Ops MWO and a few others of us decided to go get whoppers (with cheese!) for lunch.  That was the one time I had time to eat there, though it was only a few hundred metres from where I worked, and simply a hop, skip and a jump from the Fraise Chapel where I attended mass daily (except sundays, but that is another story!).  That one day lunch lasted 30 mins or so, and it still stays with me as one of the better bonding events for the BG HQ staff, ketchup smeared combats and all!  (All day long after, we mused about how we were all depressed from a protein overdose, and all wanted to kill ourselves!) 

I cannot imagine being out on op after op, getting a chance to get to KAF, and then being told by the chain of command that "TGI Fridays is too good for you, go have another serving of Pork Neck at the luxembourg!"
 
Just a quick question, having never attended the area, isn't bringing any kind of commerce to the country part of what we are trying to achieve?
 
Are you suggesting that BK switch to "batter dipped Camel Spider" and "Leftover Mule" for their menu items?  ;D
 
Bruce,

You are right to see things in the counter-insurgency mindset in terms of poverty being the cause of a lot of problems, and every Afghan working is an Afghan not firing an RPG, etc.  And there are all sorts of occasions where Afghans are employed for these purposes, most of them being general labourer types in basic construction projects.

However, although there are some Afghans who work on KAF, the vast majority of non-western types are not from Afghanistan (sadly), being contracted from elsewhere.
 
Don't get too caught up in creating a false economy thru inflated demands by NATO & others hiring local workers.....it destroys the local economy and hurts the battle against the Taliban.

Hire Afghans where necessary, but better yet focus the bought services through existing companies that hire the locals....yeah, yeah I know about corruption, but it is their country...
 
OTTAWA -- Canada's Tim Hortons coffee shop at Kandahar Airfield will remain open despite a shutdown of Pizza Hut, Burger King and other U.S. outlets deemed too luxurious by top American commanders of NATO troops.

"Kandahar Airfield Tim Hortons is an initiative to support our men and women in uniform for serving in Afghanistan," Defence Department spokeswoman Megan MacLean said. "There are no plans to close the Tim Hortons."

Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, who leads the International Security Assistance Force, has ordered most fast-food outlets on the boardwalk inside the airfield base shuttered.

Command Sgt. Maj. Michael T. Hall revealed the plan in a post on an ISAF blog last month.

"Many of you have heard that there are plans to shut down some of the ‘amenities' throughout Afghanistan," he wrote. "This is not rumour. It is fact. This is a war zone -- not an amusement park."

Sgt. Maj. Hall said he and Gen. McChrystal had been looking for ways to do things more efficiently and to optimize ISAF resources from the moment they arrived in Afghanistan last summer. Gen. McChrystal is overseeing the surge in U.S. troops and resources over coming months.

"One of the ways we're going to do that -- in order to accommodate the troop increase and get re-focused on the mission at hand -- is to cut back on some of the non-essentials. That includes some of the morale, welfare and recreation facilities throughout Afghanistan. In the coming weeks and months, concessions such as Orange Julius, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and Military Car Sales will close their doors."

He said commanders across the battlefield are implementing additional cutbacks while still providing services within individual nations' interests and regulations.

The Tim Hortons is located next to the American concessions, many of which will be closed. Operated from a 12-metre trailer, Canadian military support staff manages Tim's and profits go to health and welfare programs for Canadian Forces members.

He said Green Beans Coffee would remain at bases across Afghanistan, and bazaars and businesses which employ Afghans and feed the local economy will still continue to operate.

Sgt. Maj. Hall also said there would be fewer first-run movie showings and a reduced amount of canned and bottled goods coming into the country.

"What it comes down to is focus, and to using the resources we have in the most efficient and effective ways possible. Supplying non-essential luxuries to big bases like Bagram and Kandahar makes it harder to get essential items to combat outposts and forward operating bases, where troops who are in the fight each day need to be resupplied with ammunition, food and water."



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2726130#ixzz0j
 
Having been there twice now, and also having being OTW and in for a compairason.  I totally agree with Technoviking and others on the morale or lack there of effect this will have on the troops, especially the kids from outside.  And as mentioned, those multitudes of Civvies who do in some cases have been there for years now. 

Yes beans and bullets are important, but shitty morale will kill the party quickly too and IMO is just as important in the grand scheme of things.  How true, "nothing is too good for the troops and nothing is what they will get".  If indeed it is a supply issue, well admit it, fix it and scale down the goodies some but don't go cold turkey.  Most of the time, it was the kids from outside that I noticed having a treat at BK etc.  They deserved every bit of it too.
 
This could turn into something very interesting if Comd ISAF decides to follow through on this and orders Tim Hortons closed as well.

I know it's our intent and Tim's intent to keep it open, but it was probably the US intent and BK's intent to keep that open, as well.

ISAF does not mean American, it means overall command of the mission.  If he can order BK closed, he can order TH closed because US and Canada are both subordinate to ISAF.

It is doubtful that he would since it's our equivalent to Green Bean, but if he did order the TH closed it would make for very interesting times.
 
Someone correct me if I err, but I believe BK, TGIF etc are AFFES sanctioned sites and as such would come under more Yank control.  Whereas Tim's is under our thumb.  (Which I am nosing at the party poopers) :nana:
 
Jolly,

Agreed, but it's not a matter of who owns BK or who owns TH.  The point is that Comd ISAF isn't making decisions that only apply to Americans, and could easily apply to TH as well.

Again, not saying that he's going to say "No TH", but it's certainly not a stretch if he's saying "No BK", and Canada couldn't really do much about it since we're taking part in an ISAF mission.
 
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