USN officer took call girl job!!!

[Yrys]

If not being in favour of flesh for sale makes me a prude, then so be it.

You DO realise that by being against it in all occasion, you are reducing women who have reach their majority
into the "minority statue" women enjoy before the "liberation movement" of the '60 ?

Because, for me, being feminist mean adding to choice women can make...

 

[Celticgirl]

You DO realise that by being against it in all occasion, you are reducing women who have reach their majority
into the "minority statue" women enjoy before the "liberation movement" of the '60 ?

Is this what the feminist movement fought to bring about? The right of women to prostitute themselves? 

Because, for me, being feminist mean adding to choice women can make...

That is your interpretation, and I have a different interpretation. I see prostitution as one step above slavery...renting a person as opposed to outright buying one to do with them as you like. However, if someone is going to volunteer for it, who am I to say she (or he) can't? I do know that in Canada, at least, there are many young women who are not in it by choice...or they had a choice in the beginning and are now trapped in a cycle because of a drug addiction and/or a pimp who won't let them stop prostituting and live.

Anyway, I am not going to argue this all day because like many things, it's all a matter of personal perspective. I must put my daughter to bed now. 

 

[Yrys]

Is this what the feminist movement fought to bring about? The right of women to prostitute themselves? 

I don't think they fought for that, but I do hope it give women that liberty, in countries where it is legal... As well as choice
to be a working mom or stay-at-home mom, without culpability.

That is your interpretation, and I have a different interpretation. I see prostitution as one step above slavery...renting a person as opposed to outright buying one to do with them as you like. However, if someone is going to volunteer for it, who am I to say she (or he) can't? I do know that in Canada, at least, there are many young women who are not in it by choice...or they had a choice in the beginning and are now trapped in a cycle because of a drug addiction and/or a pimp who won't let them stop prostituting and live.

I'm speaking about mature women, that do that on their own choice, not because of exterior pressure (financial, pimp, etc) or interior  (drugs addictions, victims of pedophiles, etc). For some women, yes, it is a step above slavery, but not for every one.

 

[Celticgirl]

Some food for thought, Yrys. Thanks.   I must say, I appreciate the way that you debate issues on this site. You are very articulate (especially given that English is not your langue maternelle) and from what I have seen, you are able to completely disagree with a poster's views without attacking him/her. (OT, but just wanted to say that.  )

 

[1feral1]

No big deal? I don't really know what to say to that. To each his own, I guess. Personally, I think the degradation of women is a big deal (even if the women are 'choosing' these jobs for the money).

You know, I've been studying a lot about the CF lately. I have learned that the CF has four core values: duty, loyalty, integrity, and courage. Take a look at the third one again and ruminate on its meaning.

Come on CG, C.O.Y.O.T.E.

My point being if its going to be done, its better to be regulated and ran accordingly with some type of organisation for health concerns etc, and not some disease carrying drug addicted consortium of women/men hookers with more bad news. After all it is the world's oldest profession (it will always be here no matter what), and I am not condoming it. A licensed brothel is a lot more safe than the back seat of a car in a bad neighbourhood with acts performed by crack addicts. It also directs the clients to a dedicated area, and out of neighbourhoods and public areas, which is good in itself.

Degradation of women, in your eyes maybe, but not in everyones. Many do this job, live well, have an excellent lifestyle, and to them its just a job, nothing more. Here in Australia, male whores advertise too, so are these men being degraded? A lot of women, more so now are going for male escorts, not just a man on man thing.

What about porn shops, and the adult film industry? The government collects taxes from these too, as they do from cigarettes and whisky.

Intergrity? Well thats an individual's thing, and if the person in question is comfortable with such activities to make extra money, then so be it. As for this officer's full time profession, and with the morals of the powers to be (when in fact there are many judges, preachers, doctors, policemen, BGens, Cpl's, lawyers, 'happily' married hubbies and politicans who frequent these up market hookers(or brothels in general), its the pot calling the kettle black as far as I am concerned. I am sure she'll be made an example of, ya, by the same people who cater to such desires in the first place.

Being an escort or whatever you want to call it, does not make you a bad person, nor have a clouded judgement, its about choice. Sure some are forced into it through the sex trade (Asia, Africa, some east Euro countries etc, and this thrives in North America, and even here, but again if things are regulated, incidents like this would be on the decline. These should be closed down and the culprits in charge of such places arresrted and deported if need be. Many upper class women (and men) are professionals, and do this by choice to advance fincanially, and its a free country, so why not.

Being a part time hooker and a commissioned USN offcier does not equate to carreer advancement as an officer. She's done. Thats the hierarchy of society for ya. Manu who are hipocrites at their finest. They preach from their pulpits of rightousness, then go home to their mistresses,gay lovers, attend swingers parties, add to their sexual toy and porno collection (ya, some illegal catgories), then there is the discrete hotel rooms with whores of both sexes. The cycle never ends, I guess the darker side of being a human being. 

Get where I am coming from?

EDITed for spelling

 

[armyvern]

All reminds me of this song ...

Where the girl's the ho as per SOP. It's probably best to remember that they aren't all doing it to get rich before passing one's judgement based simply on the "profession". It is the oldest profession in the world -- for a reason. North American views on it certainly differ from other views held around the world. Again, we are assuming that our North American ideals are the "correct" ones over everyone else's.

Unfortunately, standards are one thing here in North America -- and it's usually only the women who are held up to them. Just as the stripping while serving, and just as "taking out-calls" while serving ... yet stories abound of proud uniform sporting men availing themselves of those womens services: no reprimands on their files; no hinderances to their promotions.

City High - What would you do?

And, for the record, I believe that this conduct (stripping or prostitution) is not acceptable while one wears the countries uniform, but by the same token -- I don't think it's acceptable for the men wearing uniform to be the beneficiaries of those activities either. If we've judged it so bad to DO -- it is so bad to watch as well -- anything else is a double standard.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

And, for the record, I believe that this conduct (stripping or prostitution) is not acceptable while one wears the countries uniform, but by the same token -- I don't think it's acceptable for the men wearing uniform to be the beneficiaries of those activities either. If we've judged it so bad to DO -- it is so bad to watch as well -- anything else is a double standard.

Nothing wrong with serving women going to the peelers.............

 

[armyvern]

Nothing wrong with serving women going to the peelers.............

Essentially the words my friend used:

"Here I am facing a conduct charge for stripping because it's so bad an action ... but there's nothing "bad" in the actions for those Army guys that were sitting there watching me?"

Morals: If it's so damn bad to do, it has to be so damn bad to particpate in ... even if just as a gawker.

She won by the way. Finally.

 

[medaid]

What would you do?

What would you do if your son was at home, crying alone on the bedroom floor cuz he's hungry, and the only way to feed him is to sleep with a man earn a little bit of money, cuz his daddy's gone. In and outta lock down this time for some rocks now...


Prostitution IS one of the oldest trades in mankind's history. Remember survival of the fittest? It isn't always muscles and brains, sometimes it's also about the curves and the softness of the flesh. N.American standards are quite different from the rest of the world. I guess this could be explained with the fact we're a wolrd unto our own. Compared with everone else who has had ages of history, culture inter mingling of different ethnic backgrounds in Europe, Asia, Asia Minor, it's actually just one big mixing pot. N.America is quite isolated, and in some ways we're still quite traditionalist and backward compared to our European cousins.

 

[armyvern]

Oh, and to clarify:

I have been to peeler joints since I enrolled.

 

[KevinB]

FYI the double standard it not new WRT Lt Kelly Flinn - who was court martialled for her affair, and a great deal was made of the fact she lied, and offcier trusted with nuclear weapons lied -- look at the date of this -- and ask your self did not Slick Willie have control of nukes too - and he did not have sexual relations with Monica did he...  :

"In the end, this is not an issue of adultery," said Gen. Ronald Fogleman, the Air Force chief of staff. "This is an issue about an officer entrusted to fly nuclear weapons who lied. That's what this is about."

I am not suggest what either did was right -- however there needs to be EQUALITY in the distribution of guilt or punishment etc. 

 

[armyvern]

I am not suggest what either did was right -- however there needs to be EQUALITY in the distribution of guilt or punishment etc. 

And that -- is something I agree with 100%.

 

[tomahawk6]

Lt Flynn was punished for lying[making a false statement],adultry and disobeying orders all are UCMJ offenses. LtCmdr Dickinson also violated the UCMJ by conduct unbecoming of an officer and was given a punative letter of reprimand.Its best to remember all members of the military are held to account under the UCMJ whether off duty or on.

 

[geo]

FYI the double standard it not new WRT Lt Kelly Flinn - who was court martialled for her affair, and a great deal was made of the fact she lied, and offcier trusted with nuclear weapons lied -- look at the date of this -- and ask your self did not Slick Willie have control of nukes too - and he did not have sexual relations with Monica did he...  :
I am not suggest what either did was right -- however there needs to be EQUALITY in the distribution of guilt or punishment etc. 

Let us not forget all those USAF types who goofed with those nuclear cruise missiles that were removed from storage, strapped onto B52s, flown across the country and left overnight on the tarmac without any supervision.... or the people who shipped off to Taiwan some igniter fuzes for Nuclear weapons - instead of the helicopter batteries they had ordered...

 

[Red 6]

Article 134 is the catch-all article of the UCMJ. The sub-sections below were added in October 2005. The primary reason was to prohibit service members from buying sex (Korea, Thailand, PI, etc.) but it covers selling sex as well.

(1) Prostitution.

      (a) That the accused had sexual intercourse with another person not the accused’s spouse;

      (b) That the accused did so for the purpose of receiving money or other compensation;

      (c) That this act was wrongful; and

      (d) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Note: The following subsection (2) was added by President George Bush, via Executive Order # 12473, on October 14, 2005:

(2) Patronizing a Prostitute.

      (a) That the accused had sexual intercourse with another person not the accused's spouse;

      (b) That the accused compelled, induced, enticed, or procured such person to engage in an act of sexual intercourse in exchange for money or other compensation (Note: if the act was "compelled" on or after October 1, 2007 the offense will be charged under the new Article 120). and

      (c) That this act was wrongful; and (d) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."

(3) Pandering by compelling, inducing, enticing, or procuring act of prostitution. Note: Offenses under this paragraph committed on or after October 1, 2007 will be charged under the new Article 120.

      (a) That the accused compelled, induced, enticed, or procured a certain person to engage in an act of sexual intercourse for hire and reward with a person to be directed to said person by the accused;

      (b) That this compelling, inducing, enticing, or procuring was wrongful; and (c) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

(4) Pandering by arranging or receiving consideration for arranging for sexual intercourse or sodomy.

      (a) That the accused arranged for, or received valuable consideration for arranging for, a certain person to engage in sexual intercourse or sodomy with another person;

      (b) That the arranging (and receipt of consideration) was wrongful; and (c) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

 

[armyvern]

So, are 1 & 2 inclusive of single guys & gals?? I see mention of "person other than spouse" under the terminology for both.

That's not the case though under "pandering" where it makes no differentiation of whether one has a spouse or not.

Just curious.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Article 134 is the catch-all article of the UCMJ. The sub-sections below were added in October 2005. The primary reason was to prohibit service members from buying sex (Korea, Thailand, PI, etc.) but it covers selling sex as well.

(1) Prostitution.

      (a) That the accused had sexual intercourse with another person not the accused’s spouse;

      (b) That the accused did so for the purpose of receiving money or other compensation;

      (c) That this act was wrongful; and

      (d) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Note: The following subsection (2) was added by President George Bush, via Executive Order # 12473, on October 14, 2005:

(2) Patronizing a Prostitute.

      (a) That the accused had sexual intercourse with another person not the accused's spouse;

      (b) That the accused compelled, induced, enticed, or procured such person to engage in an act of sexual intercourse in exchange for money or other compensation (Note: if the act was "compelled" on or after October 1, 2007 the offense will be charged under the new Article 120). and

      (c) That this act was wrongful; and (d) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."

The actions of the LCdr, besides being stupid, clearly are in contravention of this article of the UCMJ, but she's already received immunity so it is unlikely that she will be so charged.

It has sometimes appeared to me that the US military (more so than any other country) spends an inordinate amount of time and resources speculating about, legislating or policing the sexual practices of its members.  However, my question is in regards to the above highlighted sub-paras of the quoted article.  Is the use of the word "wrongful"  in reference to other legislation, i.e. that prostitution has to be illegal in the location where the act occurred for it to be wrongful.  If so, and if all elements of the offence have to be present for the charge to be valid then consorting with or working as a prostitute in certain counties in Nevada would not be offences under these sub-sections.

 

[Yrys]

College field trip visits legal brothel

 

[geo]

College field trip visits legal brothel

Interesting, they give military discounts!

I wonder if it's enough to offset the cost of charges?    :warstory: 

 

[Yrys]

Interesting, they give military discounts!

I wonder if it's enough to offset the cost of charges?   

Think it should get on the
Military discount list ?