Vets Affairs policies / problems / solutions

[JS2218]

It's funny. I speak to people about the LPoC's policies and I often hear "I'm all for it, but it'll never happen." This is all the more reason I think the LPoC can have influence eventually, since everyone seems to be "all for this" and "all for that." Anywho, again, best for another discussion...

It's game theory. The "average" Canadian voter is located at the centre of a Cartesian plane. The Libertarians are located at the bottom of that plane, somewhere on the left-right spectrum depending on their views on government intervention, free markets, social issues, etc. The only way you could hope to take power would be to a) shift the party to the centre of the plane; or b) take votes from conservatives. IMO, your best best would be trying to a) convince the Conservatives that democracy and the conservative movement would be well served by having at least one Libertarian in Parliament (like having the Green Party there is "good" for the environmental movement); then b) convincing the conservatives to NOT run a candidate in a winnable conservative riding, so that the Libertarian could win. But this is straying off topic from the purpose of your thread on vets' issues.

 

[a_majoor]

Can you elaborate on this idea? I can't see how Vets stuff can be delegated down to the provinces since national defence is a federal responsibility and the vets are all over the country. If done provincially it would seem that Vet A gets good healthcare in province A but Vet B with the same issues is getting crap in province B.

Since we are dealing with health care and health care is a provincial responsibility, then by rights it is up to the province to provide the treatment for a vet living there. The fact that different provinces do things differently makes the decision of where to release a bit more difficult, but that will be a factor with virtually every aspect of life outside of healthcare.

I was thinking that dealing with Vets Affairs was much like filing an insurance claim? Lose 50% of hearing, get x benefits (hearing aid paid for, etc). Am I greatly mistaken?

While this is what is supposedly on offer, in real life you end up going through hoops of fire, and it seems in our own personal case that the burden of proof is on my wife (military records and doctor's reports notwithstanding), and they take their own sweet time in responding. The issue of dealing with multiple "offices" which never seem to communicate is also huge time waster, I suspect the real motivation is to simply wear the "client" down until they give up. It is a good thing I am geographically remote at the moment; the latest outrage is the new "case worker" refuses to discuss any issue that goes back further than 6 months (despite literally years of misinformation, miscommunications and errors on their part); that case worker should be looking for benefits of their own due to blunt trauma injury.....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Since we are dealing with health care and health care is a provincial responsibility, then by rights it is up to the province to provide the treatment for a vet living there. The fact that different provinces do things differently makes the decision of where to release a bit more difficult, but that will be a factor with virtually every aspect of life outside of healthcare.

While this is what is supposedly on offer, in real life you end up going through hoops of fire, and it seems in our own personal case that the burden of proof is on my wife (military records and doctor's reports notwithstanding), and they take their own sweet time in responding. The issue of dealing with multiple "offices" which never seem to communicate is also huge time waster, I suspect the real motivation is to simply wear the "client" down until they give up. It is a good thing I am geographically remote at the moment; the latest outrage is the new "case worker" refuses to discuss any issue that goes back further than 6 months (despite literally years of misinformation, miscommunications and errors on their part); that case worker should be looking for benefits of their own due to blunt trauma injury.....

That's the VAC motto.

Delay, Deny, Die.

 

[Infanteer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/us/iraq-veteran-now-a-west-point-professor-seeks-to-rein-in-disability-pay.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

An interesting view on things, definitely contrary to the battles we are seeing in Canada.  LCol Gade seems to be proposing something akin to the system we now have.

 

[blacktriangle]

Aren't Captains often employed at the Coy comd level in the US Army?

If he was injured in 2005, as a Capt/Maj, how did me make it to LCol (and continues to serve/teach?) without a leg? Is he now retired? Was he able to serve long enough to obtain his normal service pension?

While I do think some of what he says has merit, I don't think it's a blanket solution - especially for young, uneducated junior NCM's with no formal education or work experience outside the military.

 

[Ludoc]

If he was injured in 2005, as a Capt/Maj, how did me make it to LCol (and continues to serve/teach?) without a leg? Is he now retired? Was he able to serve long enough to obtain his normal service pension?

From the article:

Today he has a lightweight aluminum and carbon fiber prosthesis guided by microprocessors that has allowed him to return to active duty.

 

[blacktriangle]

Sorry I should clarify…is he still progressing as an Armor officer within the US Army or is he being given special accommodation to continue to serve? And by serve, I mean teaching at West Point - something that a 21 year old private with a high school education could not do.

If he is allowed to deploy, and can get back in the hatch, that would change my mind - because the same option should be available to the young enlisted amputee. If that's not the case - then I don't think his circumstances reflect the average. If the LCol was a young kid with no legs and limited job prospects, he might appreciate the option of the disability payment a bit more.

 

[ballz]

I had a question via PM regarding the Libertarian stance on Vets Affairs. They were wondering if giving money to Vets Affairs went against the Libertarian concept of welfare (i.e. they oppose welfare programs paid for by the government)? They were also wondering "or is this something the party is trying to sort out."

I just wanted to clarify for anyone else that reads this, here is the response I gave them...

No this doesn't really need any "sorting out" within the party and it doesn't go against the Libertarian concept of welfare.

Pretty much everyone recognizes that this was a business relationship and that Vets are not a welfare case at all, but instead a case of the government not honouring an agreement it ought to honour. The government had a contract with its employees which included pay, healthcare, etc, and as part of that compensation package it promised to look after them if they were hurt while doing their duty. The government is largely failing at that. Libertarians believe in honouring agreements, and as many have said within the party "how can we be expected to enforce contracts if we won't even uphold our own."

As pointed out by another poster, the government is currently fighting that there was any "contract." I think, regardless of what the courts decide, that there was an agreement made, even if only of the "handshake" nature. I believe even handshakes should be honoured.

 

[George Wallace]

There is quite a difference between those who serve and put their lives on the line in service of the nation; and those who sit back and do nothing and want the nation to serve them.

 

[ballz]

Since we are dealing with health care and health care is a provincial responsibility, then by rights it is up to the province to provide the treatment for a vet living there. The fact that different provinces do things differently makes the decision of where to release a bit more difficult, but that will be a factor with virtually every aspect of life outside of healthcare.

As per the post above, although Vets Affairs deal with healthcare issues, I do believe that their healthcare being looked after is something the Federal government agreed to do in return for their service. Throwing the Vets to the Ministry of Health, or in the case that the LPoC is in power and throwing them to the *provincial* health systems, and giving them the same inadequate public healthcare that everyone else receives, and no compensation (i.e. You are no longer able to work for the rest of your life, you should be provided some sort of basic income in addition to the healthcare required) provided to overcome the fact that their ability to earn income has been, is really no different than doing nothing for them. They're getting the same thing a civilian would get in that instance.

While this is what is supposedly on offer, in real life you end up going through hoops of fire, and it seems in our own personal case that the burden of proof is on my wife (military records and doctor's reports notwithstanding), and they take their own sweet time in responding. The issue of dealing with multiple "offices" which never seem to communicate is also huge time waster, I suspect the real motivation is to simply wear the "client" down until they give up. It is a good thing I am geographically remote at the moment; the latest outrage is the new "case worker" refuses to discuss any issue that goes back further than 6 months (despite literally years of misinformation, miscommunications and errors on their part); that case worker should be looking for benefits of their own due to blunt trauma injury.....

Does the whole "proving it is a service-related injury" cause problems for a lot of people?

I understand that if I blow out my knee and tear my ACL/MCL/meniscus, I do a CF-98, and in 20 years if that CF-98 hasn't gone into the admin blackhole, then there is the proof of that injury in the CF-98. If I have no lost the use of my leg because the knee is toast, I would receive some sort of compensation.

However, in many cases, people serve 25-30 years, they break their bodies over the course of time, retire, and when they turn 50-60 all those things they did have caught up to them. There may be no CF-98s at all since there was never a major "injury," but the condition of one's back/knees/hips tells a different story. They receive no compensation because there is no "proof" there was a service-related injury?

Is the latter scenario a common problem for many?

Right now, we offer those who serve 20, 25 years their pension ASAP. I have to wonder if part of that retirement package at 20 or 25 years shouldn't be to include lifetime, "elevated" health coverage, paid for courtesy of the Federal government. If a doctor finds they need treatment for something, they could just show their doctor their insurance card and have it billed to the insurance company. No need for a Veterans Affairs claim or even a department.

 

[ballz]

There is quite a difference between those who serve and put their lives on the line in service of the nation; and those who sit back and do nothing and want the nation to serve them.

Not sure what you're getting at. While there is some back and forth in the party about the DND budget, I believe the party's stance will ultimately be to increase the budget. One thing is for sure, all members of the party wish to be wasting a lot less blood and treasure on military adventurism.

 

[upandatom]

I do not think that DND should absorb Veterans Affairs, if that is what you are suggesting.  DND should concentrate on treating those who are serving, not those who have left the Canadian Armed Forces.  Veterans Affairs should deal with all Canadian Armed Forces and RCMP retirees who need treatment.  In some cases, perhaps many, there needs to be dual coverage where one is transitioning from the CAF in Retirement/Release to Veterans Affairs.  Both Departments serve a different 'clientele'. 

One thing that we have seen fade from the CAF, has been our medical services.  Once upon a time there were fairly large Military Hospitals spread across the nation, which also served those veterans who required treatment and care.  Those days are long gone, as are most of those medical staffs.

DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER----

First- There is no coverage for a member that releases/retires from the military. Until the point that their new benefits kick in. I was called by VAC saying i was entitled. Then I attempted to call back and ask about them as i have three months with no extra benefits for assistance. They said they have no record of me being called, and they don't know what I was talking about. If a member releases from the military for whatever reason and leaves on good terms, they should be covered for a small while.

Secondly- I think all civil jobs for DND have to start being accountable for their actions, or lack there of. The amount of laziness and inability to perform their duties as a civil servant is disgraceful. If a military member carried on with that they would be delegated to the BS mail run jobs. Whether those jobs are in VAC, Pension Services, or orderly room assistants.

Number one statement-
Veterans Affairs Canada was established to provide injured veterans and members with assistance. Regardless of how much that assistance is, or what it is. The first answer should not always be no. The system was set up for us, not for the GoC to use as a tool to cut assistance.

 

[Lightguns]

I think all civil jobs for DND have to start being accountable for their actions, or lack there of. The amount of laziness and inability to perform their duties as a civil servant is disgraceful. If a military member carried on with that they would be delegated to the BS mail run jobs. Whether those jobs are in VAC, Pension Services, or orderly room assistants.

I do not agree, in DND in many HQs it is the civilians that keep things running when the military positions are off on PT, Admin, regimental birthdays, UN tours, courses and the 1000 other reasons that that military folk are absent from their load stations.  There are individuals and every HQ has them, the work to rule crowd but on the whole our civil servants are as dedicated as the military are.  I had the pleasure of supervising one lady so dedicated that I had to keep track of her overtime as she had a nasty habit of working herself to death for free.  They fill holes and provide the continuity that makes us military folk shine. 

 

[upandatom]

I do not agree, in DND in many HQs it is the civilians that keep things running when the military positions are off on PT, Admin, regimental birthdays, UN tours, courses and the 1000 other reasons that that military folk are absent from their load stations.  There are individuals and every HQ has them, the work to rule crowd but on the whole our civil servants are as dedicated as the military are.  I had the pleasure of supervising one lady so dedicated that I had to keep track of her overtime as she had a nasty habit of working herself to death for free.  They fill holes and provide the continuity that makes us military folk shine.

Ill agree that there are civil servants that do an exceptional job, I am finding those few and far between now

 

[Grunt_031]

Ill agree that there are civil servants that do an exceptional job, I am finding those few and far between now

Same can be said about Military Members.

 

[upandatom]

Does the whole "proving it is a service-related injury" cause problems for a lot of people?

With my documentation I submitted CF-98s, Witness statements, Med Chits (indicating why I was at MIR, why I was at after hours hospital) Ortho Surgeon statements, and physio statements from a Civilian and medical Physiotherapist as to what the diagnosis was, (Along with two MRI scans) indicating there was tear, and that the injury occurred during a military activity, and while on official duty. I was still told on the phone, "We cant go on those statements that it did occur during Active Military Duty and We use what our Professionals diagnose from reading your statement." Short Answer. Yes, and its possibly the most frustrating part.

A military members body goes through a lot of wear and tear, bring that to over a 5-25 years. There are going to be many aches and pains compared to someone that works in a 9-5 their whole life.

 

[upandatom]

And if people ever do decide they have more than three viable options to vote for we will end up with a revolving government like they end up with in places in Europe where the controlling party is the one who can form the biggest coalition among the other losers because nobody gets a majority.

That might work here, our political system is a joke and no one is held accountable. Look at Wynne avoiding RCMP Questioning, Same thing happened with that cow from quebeckistan, outright violations of Canadians rights in Quebec stating they have to do business in that language. There are two official languages.

We can go through and list for days about what is wrong with our political parties. Wont change a thing.

Chances are VAC wont even change, we can bitch and moan and scream for it but until we as Canadians, Stand and unanimously vote against what the parties are doing, NOTHING will change.

 

[CombatMacguyver]

outright violations of Canadians rights in Quebec stating they have to do business in that language. There are two official languages.

Not to thread hi-jack but Quebec regularly uses the not-withstanding clause to get around that little issue.

 

[Mediman14]

Just a thought.
  What if VAC was divided in itself- 1 part to deal with serving Members and the other dealing with our Vet's. I don't know the numbers of Serving Members vs Vets currently dealing with vac , just wondering if the application process and the deserving benefits would be faster?

Thanks

 

[dapaterson]

Just a thought.
  What if VAC was divided in itself- 1 part to deal with serving Members and the other dealing with our Vet's. I don't know the numbers of Serving Members vs Vets currently dealing with vac , just wondering if the application process and the deserving benefits would be faster?

Thanks

Growing bureacracy to reduce bureaucratic delays seems somewhat counter-intuitive.

There are already issues with members transitioning from DND/CAF care to VAC.  This would add another layer of friction.