Victoria Cross

[limyjack]

Hey Folks;

Just wanted to bring to everyone's attention of a movement that is a foot that I think should be resoundingly supported.

There has been a recomendation to the Governor General to have the VC betowed upon the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. For those not aware there is substantial precedent for this and in fact is military tradition.

This is done as a symbolic jesture for all the acts of great bravery that occurred in battle, yet because people did not survive or there were no witnesses nobody has ever become aware of these actions. As such, the VC would be awared to the Tomb as recognition of these unknown deeds.

The British bestowed the VC on the Tomb of the Unknown in Westminister Abby as well as upon the Tomb of the Unknowns in the US for WWI and WWII. The Us did the same with MOH, as well as reciprocating for the Tombs of the Unknowns in the UK, Blegium, and France.

Please check the bottom of the linked page for info. http://www.victoriacross.net/facts.asp

If anyone can advise on how I may do it, I also have a copy of a letter from the GG confirming this is being considered. I think people should start writing in support of this cause. I think it substantially fitting that Canada's first independantly awarded VC should be awarded in solemn recognition of the great heroism of those that came before us.

Any thoughts would be welcome. If the site operators have a fax or e-mail address I can send along the GG's letter and they can post it for all to see.

 

[Gunner]

Its a nice gesture but I'm not that keen on symbolism.  If it is that important why wasn't it done years ago (same question for the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier).  Are our politicians making up for lost time or is there an honest effort afoot to properly support the military in Canada or is it simply politicians globbing onto these initiatives to show how supportive they are.  I suspect it is pure politics.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

This COMPLETELY DEFEATS the purpose of having an Unknown Soldier and is a horrible, horrible idea.  This soldier was moved with the promise that no DNA samples would be taken and that no attempt would be made to give him an individual identity.

Why then bestow the highest reward for bravery on him?

For all we know, he died cowering in a mudhole after deserting his company because a sexually transmitted disease had made him too weak to fight.

I would urge readers of this thread to pay it no attention, it's a bad idea.

The intention of having an Unknown Soldier was to have one soldier symbolize all the sacrifice that thousands of soldiers made in the Great War - and by extension, all our wars and operational military service.  Of the one million men and women to serve in WW II, only 16 got the VC.  That's a tiny fraction of 1 percent of the total.  Why bestow this honour on someone who is supposed to symbolize "everyone"?

 

[Felix-19]

This COMPLETELY DEFEATS the purpose of having an Unknown Soldier and is a horrible, horrible idea.   This soldier was moved with the promise that no DNA samples would be taken and that no attempt would be made to give him an individual identity.

Why then bestow the highest reward for bravery on him?

For all we know, he died cowering in a mudhole after deserting his company because a sexually transmitted disease had made him too weak to fight.

I would urge readers of this thread to pay it no attention, it's a bad idea.

The intention of having an Unknown Soldier was to have one soldier symbolize all the sacrifice that thousands of soldiers made in the Great War - and by extension, all our wars and operational military service.   Of the one million men and women to serve in WW II, only 16 got the VC.   That's a tiny fraction of 1 percent of the total.   Why bestow this honour on someone who is supposed to symbolize "everyone"?

I gathered from the original post that it wouldn't be awarding the VC to the individual that is the unkown soldier.  Like you said, the unknown soldier symbolizes all the sacrifice that thousands of soldiers made in the Great War and as I understand it bestowing the VC upon the unknown soldier would be a way of paying tribute to all the brave acts that took place by Canadians during the war. 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I gathered from the original post that it wouldn't be awarding the VC to the individual that is the unkown soldier.  Like you said, the unknown soldier symbolizes all the sacrifice that thousands of soldiers made in the Great War and as I understand it bestowing the VC upon the unknown soldier would be a way of paying tribute to all the brave acts that took place by Canadians during the war. 

This is getting way out of hand.  First we have to wear a goofy plastic pin on our uniform because we want to "pay tribute to all the brave acts that took place by Canadians during the war", now we need to award the VC to a dead man because we're not doing enough to remember our soldiers?  What next?  Rememberance Day every two weeks?

Has tribute really NOT been paid?  Cause I thought we did that every November 11th, or everytime we walked past a memorial and saluted it, or every time some one looks up at the wall of their home and looks at the photo of granddad or Uncle Bill or their brother?

Let's get real.  The more gestures we make, THE LESS THEY MEAN.  Hey, why not award the Medal of Bravery to every soldier who served in the First World War?  They were all heroes, if you ask me, so why shouldn't they get them.  Lucky for us most of them are dead, so we can just amend the nominal rolls posthumously.  Not that it would mean anything since that medal didn't exist back then, and we'd have to reprint all the history books to include the whizzy new post-nominals which none of them would have recognized when they were alive - but hey - it's the right thing to do.  We need to remember our veterans, and only cheap political theatrics will really let us do that.

 

[Felix-19]

This is getting way out of hand.   First we have to wear a goofy plastic pin on our uniform because we want to "pay tribute to all the brave acts that took place by Canadians during the war", now we need to award the VC to a dead man because we're not doing enough to remember our soldiers?   What next?   Rememberance Day every two weeks?

Has tribute really NOT been paid?   Cause I thought we did that every November 11th, or everytime we walked past a memorial and saluted it, or every time some one looks up at the wall of their home and looks at the photo of granddad or Uncle Bill or their brother?

Let's get real.   The more gestures we make, THE LESS THEY MEAN.   Hey, why not award the Medal of Bravery to every soldier who served in the First World War?   They were all heroes, if you ask me, so why shouldn't they get them.   Lucky for us most of them are dead, so we can just amend the nominal rolls posthumously.   Not that it would mean anything since that medal didn't exist back then, and we'd have to reprint all the history books to include the whizzy new post-nominals which none of them would have recognized when they were alive - but hey - it's the right thing to do.   We need to remember our veterans, and only cheap political theatrics will really let us do that.

I wasn't saying that I agree with the idea, I was just explaining how I took the motives and reasoning behind the gesture.  I do agree with you however, that the more gestures we make the less they mean.  As for the Victoria Cross,  isn't it supposed to be a reward for an act of bravery by an individual?  In this case it does seem like a bad idea to follow through with this gesture. 

 

[Sam69]

This is getting way out of hand.  First we have to wear a goofy plastic pin on our uniform because we want to "pay tribute to all the brave acts that took place by Canadians during the war", now we need to award the VC to a dead man because we're not doing enough to remember our soldiers?  What next?  Rememberance [sic] Day every two weeks?

This is a bit harsh Michael. I happen to think that the pin we've been authorized to wear is not only very tasteful but that it is also a highly appropriate way to recognize and mark 2005 as the Year of the Veteran.

I normally have a great deal of respect for your posts and I respect your right to your opinion; however, I think you have strayed a long way from your normally sound views. I'm not sure what, precisely, evoked this vituperative comment but I would politely suggest that you watch where you spit when you walk on such hallowed ground.

Sincerely,
Sam

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Sam,
Michael has been very consistent with his distaste for the pin, and although not with the same fervour, I agree with him. Rememberance should not be "ordered to wear" but   something that should be freely given from inside.
Is the soldier on parade Nov. 11 who is only there because he's been ordered to really offering any "rememberance"?

 

[Infanteer]

This is a bit harsh Michael. I happen to think that the pin we've been authorized to wear is not only very tasteful but that it is also a highly appropriate way to recognize and mark 2005 as the Year of the Veteran.

Shouldn't every year be the Year of the Veteran?

I normally have a great deal of respect for your posts and I respect your right to your opinion; however, I think you have strayed a long way from your normally sound views. I'm not sure what, precisely, evoked this vituperative comment but I would politely suggest that you watch where you spit when you walk on such hallowed ground.

No, Michael has been quite consistent with his disagreement with both the concept and the execution of the pin.   Not to rehash the pretty fierce debate, but I feel that this matter was approached in a fairly reasonable manner by many (including Michael and myself) here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28569.0.html

 

[Sam69]

No, Michael has been quite consistent with his disagreement with both the concept and the execution of the pin.  Not to rehash the pretty fierce debate, but I feel that this matter was approached in a fairly reasonable manner by many (including Michael and myself) here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28569.0.html

Thanks for pointing out the thread - I had not read it before. A-Mazing... I have nothing further to add to that debate and would rather not see it repeated.

I'm out.
Sam

 

[Bill Smy]

I think the proposal has great merit. It would be most appropiate for the first award of the Canadian VC be to those thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen who served this country

 

[limyjack]

WOW Micheal - that is some serious anger.

First I would state that what others think, or remember is beside the point, I think we all know that the majority of Canadians think Canada was born when Trudeau was elected.

Also, to clarify, the award would not be to the individual that is the unknown soldier, but rather the unknown soldier in the capacity that he represents all soldiers.

I am aware that the Legion tried to have Buckingham Palace award a VC, just as had been done in England, but because our honours system is now separate, they would not. So in a discussion of whether or not this should or should not be done, I defer to the vets that fought and have previously asked for this honour, all other opinions, mine included are really of little consequence. By the way, the request, as I understand it, came privately from the public not any craven politician trying to score points.

To even compare this silly year of the veteran pin to the awarding of the VC is really beyond all credibility, not sure, maybe I am wrong, but I am fairly certain that one is just a little higher in the food chain than the other.

Lastly, I don't see this issue as a political one, it should neither be about politicians nor should it be about anyone under 65 years old (Korea) it should be about those that saw the very worst, gave their very best and ask only to be remembered, and yes I do feel that once a year for 20 minutes is not even close to enough. The apathy and ambivalence toward the military is, in large part, because 20 minutes once a year has been all there has been for the past 30-35 years. This issue is about those that went, not those that stayed home, ran and hide up north paddling a conoe in the wilderness so they wuld have to go - any resemblance to any Prime Minister living or dead is purely coincidental.

 

[rocky1fac]

Wow, these are sensitive issues, you should read the trashing im getting over wound strips on another venue.
I for one think it is a noble suggestion. If the tradition is that we do this then I agree the best use of the first VC to be issued from Canada to a Canadian should be this symbolic gesture. And by the way the VC is for Valour not bravery. Canada has awards for both Bravery and Valour, the difference is combat.

 

[reccecrewman]

Lucky for us most of them are dead,

Well, you're right for the most part.  There is not one single WWI infanteer left alive, the last one passed away a couple years ago, so awarding medals of bravery to any remaining WWI vets would be rather moot.