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VR vs 3B (Being told because I have an awarded claim from a SDA I can just VR)

Would you:

  • Wait for the 3B no matter what?

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • VR as the benifits will be the same?

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3

jeffb

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In addition to the above, I will add that the system is largely designed to give people the time they need to transition rather then getting them out the door on a quick 3B. Most people that I have dealt with over the years are looking to stay in as long as possible. If you want to get out as soon as possible on a 3B, be transparent to your CoC step one. My default is to fight to retain good people unless asked to do otherwise by the member.

When you are asked to provide representation, make one stating something to the effect that you are looking for a quick transition out of the CAF, have a good plan and support available post release, etc. A representation does not have to be why you think you do not break UoS or why you want to be retained, it could be the opposite and will help the process going in the direction you want it to.

What others have said though, don't VR. Talk to the experts on your entitlements before you make any decisions.

Good luck.
 

greydak

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UPDATE:

So despite everyone’s opinion here I’ve now been told by a second representative from my local health services unit “if you don’t want/can’t wait for a medical release just VR, as you have the same benefits from VAC”. So now that’s both someone in Case Management and someone from the MIR suggesting VR or at the lease selling the idea as an equal option to 3B but without the wait? When I pressed the second person on the pension indexing point and priority gvmt hire as some examples of differences between 3B & VR there was a bit of dead air.
  Going forward, I’ve now asked for an appointment with both these representatives as well as my local CAF TG where hopefully someone can show me a policy In black&white that confirms their recommendations to VR. In the event they can’t provide proof of this “VR is same same” position, I’ll let you all know? I truly hope that they’re misspeaking vs giving poor advice based on inaccurate information. Either way, I’ll be following up and ensuring I get a clear answer.


 
 

SupersonicMax

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What they told you may be accurate.  VAC benefits and government pension benefits are two different things.  Your VAC benefits may well be the same, regardless of your release type.
 

Jarnhamar

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greydak said:
UPDATE:

So despite everyone’s opinion here I’ve now been told by a second representative from my local health services unit “if you don’t want/can’t wait for a medical release just VR, as you have the same benefits from VAC”. So now that’s both someone in Case Management and someone from the MIR suggesting VR or at the lease selling the idea as an equal option to 3B but without the wait? When I pressed the second person on the pension indexing point and priority gvmt hire as some examples of differences between 3B & VR there was a bit of dead air.
  Going forward, I’ve now asked for an appointment with both these representatives as well as my local CAF TG where hopefully someone can show me a policy In black&white that confirms their recommendations to VR. In the event they can’t provide proof of this “VR is same same” position, I’ll let you all know? I truly hope that they’re misspeaking vs giving poor advice based on inaccurate information. Either way, I’ll be following up and ensuring I get a clear answer.

You want to talk to a client service representative at your local CAF TG to ask about release benefits.
 

greydak

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SupersonicMax said:
What they told you may be accurate.  VAC benefits and government pension benefits are two different things.  Your VAC benefits may well be the same, regardless of your release type.

This is where I’m thinking the misunderstanding is taking place. However they need to understand exacting what they are telling people. There is a difference between saying “VR & 3B aren’t any different” and “VR & 3B aren’t hugely different aside from benefits X Y & Z”
  There might only be a couple small differences (which I don’t personally believe is the case) but still the impact to the individual member releasing might be significant or even catastrophic in some cases?

 

greydak

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Jarnhamar said:
You want to talk to a client service representative at your local CAF TG to ask about release benefits.

I’m on it! Awaiting a phone meeting!
 

MJP

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Jarnhamar said:
You want to talk to a client service representative at your local CAF TG to ask about release benefits.
Agreed, health professional are great at what they do giving long term life planning based on a VR vs 3B is not one of them.

SupersonicMax said:
What they told you may be accurate.  VAC benefits and government pension benefits are two different things.  Your VAC benefits may well be the same, regardless of your release type.

In terms of coverage and potential payout yes, but there are other very tangible benefits to a 3B that a VR doesn't provide, pension indexing, severance extension (to release date vice 2012), education/re-training benefits and salary top up while doing so.
 

SupersonicMax

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MJP said:
In terms of coverage and potential payout yes, but there are other very tangible benefits to a 3B that a VR doesn't provide, pension indexing, severance extension (to release date vice 2012), education/re-training benefits and salary top up while doing so.

Yes, but those are not VAC benefits.  They are related to our pension benefits.  What he was told is that VAC benefits would be the same.  That is accurate but only one aspect of the situation.
 

MJP

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SupersonicMax said:
Yes, but those are not VAC benefits.  They are related to our pension benefits.  What he was told is that VAC benefits would be the same.  That is accurate but only one aspect of the situation.

Yes and never said they were, but split hairs all you want.  Long story short OP is getting some pretty bad advice given the limited amount of information presented.

Like how only PSPC pension center can give pension advice, OP's med team should stick to doing medical stuff and allow the people that know better to advise OP.
 

SupersonicMax

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MJP said:
Yes and never said they were, but split hairs all you want.  Long story short OP is getting some pretty bad advice given the limited amount of information presented.

Like how only PSPC pension center can give pension advice, OP's med team should stick to doing medical stuff and allow the people that know better to advise OP.

I agree, the advise was piss poor.  The argument given however incomplete was accurate.  Words have meaning(s).
 

Aceaspace

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Relocation benefits for your final move will be different depending on VR vs 3B. I’d suggest looking over the relocation policy for both options. You will also receive severance pay on a 3B which you would not with a VR.
 

greydak

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I have sent out some emails to both CAF TG and the base Release Section to gain some insight.

I'll post here with the latest information from more experienced and credible sources!

Thanks everyone for the responses!

Cheers
 

greydak

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Ok Release Section had a variety of ways VR & 3B are different including (but not limited to):

- Moving Entitlements
- Government of Canada Priority Hire
- Pension/Transfer value amount
- Top ups from SISIP
- VOC Rehab

Basically its all different.


Also, I got clarification from the medical side who phrased it quite differently upon being questioned.

Today they said "Some members choose to VR as a way of avoiding the wait times experienced with TCATs/PCATs/DMCA/DMEDPOL because when the VR is triggered your file is reviewed in Ottawa and they determine if there is a medical release entitlement" basically they are rushing to ensure they don't VR release someone who should have had a 3B?
They also told me that's where the "Injury sustained in a SDA" would make it "more likely but not guaranteed".

Sounds F#%$'d to you too?

So again this appears to be a very risky bit of advice to tell a member who's frustrated with the process. I wouldn't risk gambling away a 3B to try and expedite the process with a VR. 
 

Jarnhamar

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[quote author=greydak]

Today they said "Some members choose to VR as a way of avoiding the wait times experienced with TCATs/PCATs/DMCA/DMEDPOL because when the VR is triggered your file is reviewed in Ottawa and they determine if there is a medical release entitlement"
[/quote]

I personally know someone who thought they were clever and would try to cheat the system that way. Their unit was happy to support the VR.
The unit didn't support the member requesting to cancel their VR request when it appeared to him it wouldn't result in a 3B release, going so far as to submitting a giant stack of paperwork highlighting why the guy shouldn't be kept in the CAF.

 

greydak

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Jarnhamar said:
I personally know someone who thought they were clever and would try to cheat the system that way. Their unit was happy to support the VR.
The unit didn't support the member requesting to cancel their VR request when it appeared to him it wouldn't result in a 3B release, going so far as to submitting a giant stack of paperwork highlighting why the guy shouldn't be kept in the CAF.

Yah I'm sure it would be different in my own case, but even with that belief I still wouldn't risk it!

Furthermore the MIR shouldn't be so freely suggesting it to members.

 
S

stellarpanther

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greydak said:
Today they said "Some members choose to VR as a way of avoiding the wait times experienced with TCATs/PCATs/DMCA/DMEDPOL because when the VR is triggered your file is reviewed in Ottawa and they determine if there is a medical release entitlement" basically they are rushing to ensure they don't VR release someone who should have had a 3B?
They also told me that's where the "Injury sustained in a SDA" would make it "more likely but not guaranteed".

It's possible you are getting old information.  In the past mbr's would get released sometime by putting in their VR knowing that it would later get changed to a 3B.  Some years ago I believe it was a CANFORGEN came out saying that once a mbr is released they wouldn't be revisiting the type of release and changing it to a 3b.  I personally knew one person that got burned by that.  Not sure what happened with his grievance as I haven't spoke to him in several years.  Just be careful.  Personally I would try to stick it out and waive everything they put in front of you in order to hopefully speed up the medical release process.  If you can get yourself in the Transition Centre, if they know you will be medically releasing at some point, they will sometimes post you to a TC in another area where you ultimately want to retire.  If I was you, I would talk to your doctor to see if they would support you going to the TC, it's the Base Surgeon that signs it but he/she will discuss it with your MO.  If medical will support it, then put in a memo requesting it even if the unit is verbally telling you no.  Force the issue as much as you can. They may back down if they need to put their reasons for denying it in writing.  Also remember that it's the CO of your unit who will decide on behalf or the unit.  I've seen a couple memos in which the CoC under the CO recommended against it yet the CO supported it anyway.


 

ModlrMike

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It's been my understanding that if you VR, and you're release code is later changed to 3b, you still don't qualify for all the benefits. I would advise staying the course. Don't ask for disclosure so that your case is resolved more quickly. Wait for the 3b.
 
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stellarpanther

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ModlrMike said:
It's been my understanding that if you VR, and you're release code is later changed to 3b, you still don't qualify for all the benefits. I would advise staying the course. Don't ask for disclosure so that your case is resolved more quickly. Wait for the 3b.

If a mbr gets out on a 4c for example, I don't know if they are revisiting it later.  Approx. 7 or 8 years ago something came out saying they wouldn't change the release item after you already released as they didn't have the time.  An HRA working in releases might know if it was ever switched back.


 

dapaterson

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To my recollection, the former custom of altering release items after the fact was ceased following legal review, as there is no authority within QR&O chapter 15 to make after the fact changes to release items.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/queens-regulations-orders/vol-1-administration/ch-15-release.html
 

meni0n

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They basically annotate your 4c with "disabled" which gives you the same benefits as a 3B release. But, this takes time and you have to make a case to DMCA.
 
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