We’ve given up on Canada’s military, so let’s abandon it altogether

[Halifax Tar]

We’ve given up on Canada’s military, so let’s abandon it altogether

We could save billions we’d otherwise spend on duct tape for our fleets and squadrons. We could keep some soldiers for disaster response—but they don’t need guns

Scott Gilmore

January 29, 2018

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/weve-given-up-on-canadas-military-so-lets-abandon-it-altogether/

 

[OldSolduer]

Somehow I don’t think the writer was serious.

 

[JacobPayne17]

Somehow I don’t think the writer was serious.

I hope not

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

 

[FSTO]

I agree that the Canadian public could give two rats about the CAF unless they are being flooded, burned or frozen out of their home. But a lot of his points are pure overwhelmingly stupid uninformed opinions.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Somehow I don’t think the writer was serious.

I hope not

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Did you read the article ?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I agree that the Canadian public could give two rats about the CAF unless they are being flooded, burned or frozen out of their home. But a lot of his points are pure overwhelmingly stupid uninformed opinions.

Sarcasm perhaps ?  Frustration ?

 

[jollyjacktar]

I agree that the Canadian public could give two rats about the CAF unless they are being flooded, burned or frozen out of their home. But a lot of his points are pure overwhelmingly stupid uninformed opinions.

If he is saying, that we are a shadow of our former selves and not much better than a paper tiger in some respects, l can't totally fault him.  As has been stated in other threads by many more wise than l, subsequent sitting Governments have willfully whittled us down with a death by a thousand cuts.

It is a damn good thing we're hard to get to and have a large neighbour in this duplex that is North America that would be pissed off if our side started to burn down.  Because we sure as shit couldn't defend our turf for very long against a serious threat.

So, do we shit or get off the pot? 

 

[Halifax Tar]

If he is saying, that we are a shadow of our former selves and not much better than a paper tiger in some respects, l can't totally fault him.  As has been stated in other threads by many more wise than l, subsequent sitting Governments have willfully whittled us down with a death by a thousand cuts.

It is a damn good thing we're hard to get to and have a large neighbour in this duplex that is North America that would be pissed off if our side started to burn down.  Because we sure as crap couldn't defend our turf for very long against a serious threat.

So, do we crap or get off the pot?

I think you're picking up what the author is putting down.

 

[FSTO]

If he is saying, that we are a shadow of our former selves and not much better than a paper tiger in some respects, l can't totally fault him.  As has been stated in other threads by many more wise than l, subsequent sitting Governments have willfully whittled us down with a death by a thousand cuts.

It is a damn good thing we're hard to get to and have a large neighbour in this duplex that is North America that would be pissed off if our side started to burn down.  Because we sure as crap couldn't defend our turf for very long against a serious threat.

So, do we crap or get off the pot?

I hear you.
And yes we have been using the USA like a rented mule since about 1965. I guess I over reacted to the comment about the submarines. Even though I'm not a submariner those guys and gals are pure professionals.

 

[jollyjacktar]

We all are. 

 

[winnipegoo7]

satire

[sat-ahyuh r]

noun

the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

synonyms:
mockery, ridicule, derision, scorn, caricature.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

Truer words have never been spoken... in regards to politics, not so much the CF, that part stings.

Because for parties of all stripes, that is the single most important role of the Armed Forces—optics. It allows politicians to look bold, and it allows the country to pretend that we are a useful ally.

 

[AbdullahD]

Maybe scale back the Canadian military, but evolve it at the same time to far more specialized use??

I do not pretend to know squat about the military.. But if we can not do quantity, why not do quality? Ie evolve the Canadian military into specialist positions that our allies need to rely on, or do rely on?

Instead of a pure base from our armed forces branch, reduce that talent pool and pull talent from the RCMP, CSIS and local policing forces... focus more on training as well (which I believe we have a foot in on) etc etc

I'm just talking out my rear end here, but if we have a big Canadian forces that is I'll equppied I'd feel like we are sending our people to die. if however it is tiny, but highly educated and equipped.. I'd feel it would be better.

My ramblings sorry
Abdullah

 

[Piece of Cake]

Maybe scale back the Canadian military, but evolve it at the same time to far more specialized use??

I do not pretend to know squat about the military.. But if we can not do quantity, why not do quality? Ie evolve the Canadian military into specialist positions that our allies need to rely on, or do rely on?

Instead of a pure base from our armed forces branch, reduce that talent pool and pull talent from the RCMP, CSIS and local policing forces... focus more on training as well (which I believe we have a foot in on) etc etc

I'm just talking out my rear end here, but if we have a big Canadian forces that is I'll equppied I'd feel like we are sending our people to die. if however it is tiny, but highly educated and equipped.. I'd feel it would be better.

My ramblings sorry
Abdullah

I would be happy to see Canada fulfill its NATO commitments and spend 2 percent of our GDP on defence.

 

[ballz]

To some extent he's right... but there is a huge fallacy, IMO, that our problems in the CAF are largely related to not having enough money.

Our problems are related to policy surrounding the money (outside of our control, although I think the higher level leadership could at least *try* to influence), particularly around procurement (very much a purely political issue), and also very poor, poor, poor, financial management. We don't just spend inefficiently when we do spend, we also don't ena

The financial management side is almost wholly within our control. Our L2 just turned in $300,000 back to L1 in advance because we know we can't spend it. The fin staff wanted to turn back more but the Comd wants to give every opportunity to get it spent. We're almost guaranteed to turn in more. I spoke to all the units at Ex RELENTLESS WARRIOR and they can't even get small purchases of mats / equipment to support what is a huge growing positive movement, and yet here we are drowning in money.

There is a gaping disconnect between operators and finance. As an Infantry Officer, I never understood it. Money was the solution to all our "good ideas" and yet no one seemed interested in learning the in's and out's of getting more money for x,y,z, or even having their own budget and their own ability to control money. All I ever wanted was a budget and the DOA for EIA/Sect 32.

Now that I'm on the finance side, I see the other side of the frustrating coin. Finance blame operators because don't know anything about money, and yet I got looked at like I had 18 heads when I suggested we need to delegate financial authority down past the unit level so that the first time you see a budget in your career isn't when you are a LCol with a $2 mill operating budget and no clue how you can or can't use it and is just signing what the QM puts in front of him. We actually can't capture costs so that sub-units can start to have a budget, because they refuse to even assign sub-units cost centres out of fear that it will make things "too complicated," let alone encourage operators to actually get a grip over the resources they are using. [/tangent]

 

[ballz]

I would be happy to see Canada fulfill its NATO commitments and spend 2 percent of our GDP on defence.

I've said it before... I wouldn't give the DND another dime in its current form.

 

[Piece of Cake]

To some extent he's right... but there is a huge fallacy, IMO, that our problems in the CAF are largely related to not having enough money.

Our problems are related to policy surrounding the money (outside of our control, although I think the higher level leadership could at least *try* to influence), particularly around procurement (very much a purely political issue), and also very poor, poor, poor, financial management. We don't just spend inefficiently when we do spend, we also don't ena

The financial management side is almost wholly within our control. Our L2 just turned in $300,000 back to L1 in advance because we know we can't spend it. The fin staff wanted to turn back more but the Comd wants to give every opportunity to get it spent. We're almost guaranteed to turn in more. I spoke to all the units at Ex RELENTLESS WARRIOR and they can't even get small purchases of mats / equipment to support what is a huge growing positive movement, and yet here we are drowning in money.

There is a gaping disconnect between operators and finance. As an Infantry Officer, I never understood it. Money was the solution to all our "good ideas" and yet no one seemed interested in learning the in's and out's of getting more money for x,y,z, or even having their own budget and their own ability to control money. All I ever wanted was a budget and the DOA for EIA/Sect 32.

Now that I'm on the finance side, I see the other side of the frustrating coin. Finance blame operators because don't know anything about money, and yet I got looked at like I had 18 heads when I suggested we need to delegate financial authority down past the unit level so that the first time you see a budget in your career isn't when you are a LCol with a $2 mill operating budget and no clue how you can or can't use it and is just signing what the QM puts in front of him. We actually can't capture costs so that sub-units can start to have a budget, because they refuse to even assign sub-units cost centres out of fear that it will make things "too complicated," let alone encourage operators to actually get a grip over the resources they are using. [/tangent]

I strongly believe that we should be teaching financial management as part of BMOQ.  Leaders need to understand how finances affects her / his troops.

 

[daftandbarmy]

To some extent he's right... but there is a huge fallacy, IMO, that our problems in the CAF are largely related to not having enough money.

Our problems are related to policy surrounding the money (outside of our control, although I think the higher level leadership could at least *try* to influence), particularly around procurement (very much a purely political issue), and also very poor, poor, poor, financial management. We don't just spend inefficiently when we do spend, we also don't ena

The financial management side is almost wholly within our control. Our L2 just turned in $300,000 back to L1 in advance because we know we can't spend it. The fin staff wanted to turn back more but the Comd wants to give every opportunity to get it spent. We're almost guaranteed to turn in more. I spoke to all the units at Ex RELENTLESS WARRIOR and they can't even get small purchases of mats / equipment to support what is a huge growing positive movement, and yet here we are drowning in money.

There is a gaping disconnect between operators and finance. As an Infantry Officer, I never understood it. Money was the solution to all our "good ideas" and yet no one seemed interested in learning the in's and out's of getting more money for x,y,z, or even having their own budget and their own ability to control money. All I ever wanted was a budget and the DOA for EIA/Sect 32.

Now that I'm on the finance side, I see the other side of the frustrating coin. Finance blame operators because don't know anything about money, and yet I got looked at like I had 18 heads when I suggested we need to delegate financial authority down past the unit level so that the first time you see a budget in your career isn't when you are a LCol with a $2 mill operating budget and no clue how you can or can't use it and is just signing what the QM puts in front of him. We actually can't capture costs so that sub-units can start to have a budget, because they refuse to even assign sub-units cost centres out of fear that it will make things "too complicated," let alone encourage operators to actually get a grip over the resources they are using. [/tangent]

Other public sector organizations, as well as the private sector, are strong on performance managing their leaders related to strategic management, goal achievement and associated budget alignment.

I assume that we don't do that stuff.

 

[Quirky]

As a lowly worker bee junior NCM I could care less about planes or ships or helicopters. I have no control over the state of our military and it’s easy to see it’s mostly a political problem. ‘Don’t cut my pay or pension’ is the normal sentiment I keep hearing. Do my 20-25 gtfo out of dodge and back into the real world.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I think anyone with any sort of interests in Canadian Defence matters needs a healthy dose of expectation management.  I also think our Defence priorities are misplaced at times due to historic links. 

Some things we are doing well are growing SOF and the Intelligence community.  There have been some hiccups but long term I see these trends as a positive.  I also see the NSPS as a positive development and hope that it leads to a more capable Navy in the future with more capability. 

Fighter debacle, Armed UAVs, lack of RAS and sea based AAW are things that need an immediate fix IMO.  Complaints in the military are often Army centric.  My opinion is the Regular Army is too large and has an oversized voice in the halls of power.