Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's

[Journeyman]

Response by PM to keep thread on topic

 

[slayer/raptor]

Anyone notice the CDS wearing US and another country's (not sure which) jumps wings yesterday at the CF appreciation nhl game in Toronto yesterday?

 

[PuckChaser]

Looked like US jump wings. Dude has enough bling, he doesn't need to wear more in contravention to the dress regs (The presence of a US officer doesn't make it a US military event or "working" with the US).

 

[RedcapCrusader]

Looked like US jump wings. Dude has enough bling, he doesn't need to wear more in contravention to the dress regs (The presence of a US officer doesn't make it a US military event or "working" with the US).

It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.

 

[AmmoTech90]

It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.

Someone should have pointed it out to him, perhaps the CFCWO or his EA/ADC?  Funny how a popular CDS gets a bye; if it wasn't JV there would be howls of protest methinks.  There's the whole lead by example thing.  But as pointed out in the budget thread the fastest way the CAF can spend money is more bling so I guess he is leading by example.

 

[PuckChaser]

It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.

We have rules for a reason, the entire CAF is built on rules. If we give the CDS a pass foe this what does that say when we hammer a MCpl for doing it? As for bigger fish to fry, it takes 0 effort and a 10 second conversation to sort out someone's dress.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Anyone notice the CDS wearing US and another country's (not sure which) jumps wings yesterday at the CF appreciation nhl game in Toronto yesterday?

We should all be wearing US jump wings. It's D + 2 already and they're going to need all the 'invaders' they can get in about a month

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.

Would you care if all of your subordinates who had US jump wings suddenly started wearing them?

Leadership is from the top down, no?  From http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/toc-04.page

4.02 - GENERAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF OFFICERS

(1) An officer shall:
a.become acquainted with, observe and enforce:
i.the National Defence Act,
ii.the Security of Information Act,
iii.QR&O, and
iv.all other regulations, rules, orders and instructions that pertain to the performance of the officer's duties;

That would include CF dress regulations.  It sets the "we are GOFO/Snr Officer/Jnr Officers/CWOs/MWOs/WOs/Sgts, we can bend the rules that we are actually supposed to enforce" precedent.  If its not a big deal for our most senior ranks to do it, it should be even LESS of a deal if our OCdts, 2Lts, Cpls and Pte's do it.

But the last few years have shown us its not about leadership sometimes, its about getting the new bling.  Example, the "new" Wings for RCAF personnel that are approved but not produced in mass and distributed yet, but our senior leaders and a select few are sporting the new bling so they have their LCF goin' on while the people at the op level wait.  The Wings themselves aren't much of a big deal (the less I am in DEU and more I am in a flight suit, the happier I am...), the message of "the troops DON'T come first" is a big deal (to me). 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

But we always knew that our very senior leadership has bling envy.

I think it started with the RCN getting it's elliot's eye back. That meant that the admirals started wearing the wide band plus stripes on their sleeves of their DEU tunics. Now, they retained the shoulder boards with maple leaves but only for uniforms without sleeve stripes. So it was one or the other for the RCN (as had always been the case in past uniforms).

But all that gold on the sleeves of DEU tunics wouldn't do with the RCAF, who just had to re-establish bling superiority. So they came up with this clever plan (as can be seen in the picture above): With the re-introduction of blue/grey "Air Force" colours stripes, they adopted the "old" RCAF practice of broad band plus stripes on the DEU sleeves, but for added bling kept the wearing of shoulder boards with maple leaves at the same time.

The poor Army was left in a lurch! Imagine, the newly re-introduced "British" style pips and crowns meant that, other than the red general's gorgets, their bling was actually very subdued. That just wouldn't do: So just for general officers, they re-introduced the old gold broad band and shoulder maple leaves, but kept the gorgets.

At least, the Army didn't go bat crazy like the RCAF, except for the CDS who decided that somehow his maple leaves should be twice as big as every one else's and made of silver. 

;D ;D ;D

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I guess I'm weird.  I'd prefer to have a decent flashlight I didn't have to buy myself, or flying gloves that don't fall apart when I use them for...flying.  Nice driving gloves, but changing setting on a belly load and they're toast after the first 10 buoys usually.  I received some helpful new DEU slip-ons this year though!  :blotto:

 

[Journeyman]

But we always knew that our very senior leadership has bling envy.

Oh, there's still a ways to go...   

... except for the CDS who decided that somehow his maple leaves should be twice as big as every one else's and made of silver. 

          ???

 

[Eye In The Sky]

 

[hambley92]

Maple leaves and new insignia at the same time? And all those jump wings....?

Edit: I just dug into the regs for ranks and apparently that changed last year (don't know how I missed it), but I guess that is how General ranks are now...

Also - looks like the third set of wings are German.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Edit: I just dug into the regs for ranks and apparently that changed last year (don't know how I missed it), but I guess that is how General ranks are now...

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1045579

and the Forage Cap *stuff*...

http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/news-publications/national-news-details-no-menu.page?doc=maple-leaf-is-back-in-new-army-dress/iv9j06gw

Forage caps – with their distinctive stiff brims – were replaced by the beret in the CA decades ago. CWO Guimond said their re-introduction is a nod to CA heritage that will also bring the CA more in line with many of its allies.

“The forage cap suggests authority, seniority,” he said. “It means a lot. And when we look at many other countries, the general officers are wearing their forage caps with their element uniforms.”
-------------------------------------------------
I guess the Army Sgt-Maj doesn't remember getting issued his forage cap on Thursday of Week 1 in Cornwallis like I did.  I had no idea I had authority and seniority vested in me that day in Supply!

Fact is, the all 3 elements are guilty of the bling-BS the past few years; Army, Navy AND Air Force.  Caps, curls and Aircrew Wings are high priority issues in the CAF today.  :nod:

 

[Journeyman]

[CDS pics]

Seen.  Obviously, I've been looking at old pictures.

Thanks

 

[hambley92]

I'm still confused by the wings as this is what is stated in the Dress Regs:

FOREIGN FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES
12. Personnel who have been presented foreign Flying and Specialist Skill badges
from allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed
by the CAF, shall wear the applicable CAF badge in accordance with wear
instructions above.

13. Where an equivalent CAF badge has not been designed or approved for wear,
the foreign badge presented for the prescribed qualification shall be worn like a
CAF badge in accordance with wear instructions above. If wearing both a CAF
badge and a foreign badge, the CAF badge shall take precedence.

14. The following prescribed foreign qualification badges are authorized for wear on
the CAF uniform:

a. United States Army Ranger Badge (a cloth sleeve badge);
b. United States Army Special Forces Badge (a cloth sleeve badge);
c. United States Sapper Badge (a cloth sleeve badge);
d. United States Army Ranger Badge (metal pocket badge);
e. United States Army Special Forces Badge (metal pocket badge);
f. United States Air Assault Badge (a metal pocket badge);
g. Colombian Lancero Badge (a metal pocket badge); and
h. Brazilian Jungle Warfare Badge (a metal pocket badge).

15. Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a
result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CAF, and those
who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or
serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate
metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress
jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently
working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function
sponsored by the country concerned.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Seen.  Obviously, I've been looking at old pictures.

Thanks

IMO, even the 'new' rank the CDS has on now isn't really that different from that of previous CDS's...

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-org-structure/former-cds.page

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I guess I'm weird.  I'd prefer to have a decent flashlight I didn't have to buy myself, or flying gloves that don't fall apart when I use them for...flying.  Nice driving gloves, but changing setting on a belly load and they're toast after the first 10 buoys usually.  I received some helpful new DEU slip-ons this year though!  :blotto:

Is it too much to ask to get kit that doesn't fall apart especially in an office setting i.e. the new temperate combat sneakers boots...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Is it too much to ask to get kit that doesn't fall apart especially in an office setting i.e. the new temperate combat sneakers boots...

Yes?  >

 

[dimsum]

I'm still confused by the wings as this is what is stated in the Dress Regs:

FOREIGN FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES
15. Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a
result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CAF, and those
who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or
serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate
metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress
jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently
working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function
sponsored by the country concerned.

Basically, if that picture was taken in Germany, he would be authorized to wear German jump wings.