Western Society & Home-grown Terrorists.

[Scoobie Newbie]

Jumper I have come to see that any race/religion can be corrupted or hypocritical.  Its not a white thing anymore.

 

[S McKee]

Your right on that one...

 

[paracowboy]

am I the only one who read John Galt's post as dripping with sarcasm?

 

[S McKee]

am I the only one who read John Galt's post as dripping with sarcasm?

I KNEW yours was, unless jumpers are getting all PC these days, they're not, are they? I don't know about John, if so... well hey nothing like a good rant to clear the system.

 

[paracowboy]

well hey nothing like a good rant to clear the system.

very true. I try to have one at least three times a day. If nothing else, it amuses the heck outta my troops.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

it does sound like sarcasm to me.

 

[Joe Blow]

Although I read this as being well placed sarcasm as well:

Wait a second here: first, we really must be vigilant to ensure that there is not a backlash against the Muslim community.

I do think that we really do have to guard against sweeping generalizations about Islam and Muslims, and I think that it is worth while saying so now and again just to remind those who might have a tendency to do so.

Islam has schools of thought and tradition just like Christianity and it is important to distinguish between them.  ..and I really think that we are beginning to do so.  News coverage seems to reflect the fact that Wahbisim for ex. is particularly toxic, and that much of the crap coming out of Afghanistan and Pakistan is has been no less harmful (to state the obvious).

Anyway, I honestly think it's worth saying.  However...

THAT SAID..

- I think that we should realize that - although not every Muslim is a terrorist - unfortunately all the terrorists that we need to be most concerned about at the moment happen to be Muslim.

- With that in mind we (broadly) *and also the Muslim quarter of our society (specifically)* should accept that this is a more-or-less  identifiable group and that security attention is reasonable apportioned in that quarter. ("More or less" being an important qualifier)

ADDITIONALY:

- I really wish the imams would let the bodies cool before they trot out the "don't blame us all" line.  I would prefer it if that plea were implied by both their consistant, vehement and unconditional condemnation of these sorts of acts, and also their persistant, active combat against the lines of thought that lead to them ..which leads to the next point.

- I wish they would go further than condemnation of the acts after the fact and start combating this stuff preemptively in the Muslim community.  Publicly ID people that preach extremism ..let them rebut ..the debate is now out in there air and we can all see who peaches what.

Hope that adds.  Cheers.

 

[Dare]

OK, the iman of one (of about 30 (?) - http://www.arabtoronto.com/arabcommunity/mosques2.htm ) Toronto mosque says a half dozen young men have come to him asking about fighting.  Maybe that means there are as many as 150 young men in Toronto who want to do something to strike a blow for Islam; let's say there are only 1/3 that many: 50.  Suppose just 2% - 1 of those 50 â “ decides that the best place to strike a blow is somewhere in Toronto; what do we protect?  How do we prevent the attack?  What do we do after the fact â “ besides reaffirming that Islam is a peaceful religion?

From today's Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050725.wxthreats25/BNStory/National/

With a Public Safety Minister like Anne McLellan, who needs enemies!? How does this deranged woman keep getting into places of the highest responsibility?

 

[Infanteer]

Since, as I've claimed many times before, I believe this to be a War and not a criminal act I have no compunction against gearing up the heat on people like Imam Hindy and sending him to a cozy room in Gitmo....

 

[McG]

I recently crossed a book about racial profiling and internment during war (Japaneesse in WWII and today in the war on terror).  I did not have time to pick it up and I don't recall the title, but it seemed to advocate locking away the potential threats as being the lesser evil during war. 

I'd think that anyone that brings themself up on the radar should be fair game during war.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Colour?
Our normal views count with Terrorist's,thats how they beat us,by being inconspicuous,that gray person in the back ground .We are all used to seeing Japanese,Korean's,Iranians,Sikhs etc. every day in our day to day lives,yes?Same in the U.K. more so London.
Our Achilles heel is our Multi Cult Society but how do we as a Nation deal with this with out persecuting one part of our Society while trying to defeat this enemy?

 

[1feral1]

Meanwhile in Australia, todays poll on www.johnlaws.com.au has it at 96% of Australians are opposed to further immigration of Muslims to Australia. Only 4% are in favour.

Seems they are all being tarred with the same brush, and the comments from some LOSER skeik in Melbourne (on Sunday on Aussie 60 minutes), Mohammed Omran (do a google on this filthy skidmark) saying Washington orchastrated 9-11, calling OBL a hero, saying its okay to beat your wife, and saying muslims have a right to Australia to be their country, because they chose to come here, and Australians do not have this right as they were born here. He says one day Australia will be a islamic state, and its matter of time, and muslims have to be patient. Sewing seeds of hatred against the west (us all) is happening right now, right in your own country too.

Complete and utter BS, and its idiots like this WANKER who are indeed widening the gap between us and them. Yes, thats exactly what they want.

Yes, I am afraid (glad I am out of Sydney too, as I have been intimidated on a few occasions by muslim youth 18-25yrs old) and deeply concerned as the minds of young radical muslims are taking in what he says, and the recruitment drive is well under way. Our PM today called the shiek dispicable or deplorable (or similar word), and the opposition party too say the guy is doing nothing but inflaming the situation.

Being honest, I would not want to be catching public trains in Sydney these days, and thats the truth! Our ever vigilent secuirty force do indeed have their hands full, to say the least.

Sadly, our day is coming, and a thousand allah's won't stop the rath of mainstream Aussies if they conduct a cowardly attack here, and that scares me even worse.

Fasten your seatbelt Westerners, we are in for a bumby flight!

Regards,

Wes

 

[Infanteer]

I recently crossed a book about racial profiling and internment during war (Japaneesse in WWII and today in the war on terror).   I did not have time to pick it up and I don't recall the title, but it seemed to advocate locking away the potential threats as being the lesser evil during war.  

I'd think that anyone that brings themself up on the radar should be fair game during war.

Sure, although I wouldn't be too quick to compare the two.  Canada simply rounded up Japanese wholesale and sent them to the internment camps in WWII, while I see no problem with picking out the rabble rousers and sending them on their way.

Our Achilles heel is our Multi Cult Society but how do we as a Nation deal with this with out persecuting one part of our Society while trying to defeat this enemy?

I'd say it is our greatest strength as well.  I think the necessary step is to watch, identify the actual trouble makers, and be ruthless with them.  No need to go after entire groups.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

See! that right there!

about the Imam having young men asking him about attacks....
if he was against terrorism, he would have condemned them and reported the motherf**kers.

But no, of course not.Obviously theyre interested in blowing up some of our people, and if they can't get any information or ideas from
him, theyll find them elsewhere.

Another thing i agree with, as soon as they 'show up on the radar' they should be fair game.
"How would I go about bombing a toronto subway?"

**ARRESTED**

Utterring death threats isnt legal in this country, so why is this?

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

I recently crossed a book about racial profiling and internment during war (Japaneesse in WWII and today in the war on terror).  I did not have time to pick it up and I don't recall the title, but it seemed to advocate locking away the potential threats as being the lesser evil during war.

Are you thinking of In Defense of Internment: The Case for 'Racial Profiling' in World War II and the War on Terror by Michelle Malkin?  The few excerpts & summaries I've read suggest that it makes for interesting reading. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260514/qid=1122397008/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2014826-0592149?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Quick 'n' dirty review here: http://instapundit.com/archives/016935.php

For the record, my previous post was indeed intended to be sarcastic, though it is rather telling that it could well be understood to be sincere ...

 

[S McKee]

John I take back all the bad things I said about you.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

John I take back all the bad things I said about you.

Heh - I have pretty much the same reaction when those same things are stated sincerely - rather sad that the mainstream doesn't seem to.

 

[McG]

Are you thinking of In Defense of Internment: The Case for 'Racial Profiling' in World War II and the War on Terror by Michelle Malkin?  

That is the one.  I hope to get to a copy one day.

 

[Infanteer]

It's fun enough reading the Amazon reviews on that book....

 

[Edward Campbell]

More on this subject http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32640/post-243819.html#msg243819 from today's Globe and Mail.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050727/IMAM27/TPNational/?query=Iman%27s+accusations+unfounded%2C+CSIS+says

Imam's accusations unfounded, CSIS says

By COLIN FREEZE

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 Updated at 8:13 AM EDT

Canada's normally zip-lipped spy service yesterday took the unusual step of speaking out publicly against a Muslim leader, alleging that he has been making accusations against government agents that "we believe to be totally without foundation."

"We really want to counteract these allegations," said Canadian Security Intelligence Service spokeswoman Kathryn Locke, who called The Globe and Mail to respond to comments made by Aly Hindy, the imam of the Salaheddin Islamic Centre in Scarborough.

"These unsubstantiated charges are not helpful," she said, adding that Mr. Hindy's comments threaten bridges that CSIS has been trying to build with the Muslim community.

On Monday, The Globe and Mail published an interview with the imam, in which he complained that a young Muslim woman told him that CSIS agents roughed her up while her husband was away at prayers.

This, he said, was an outrage that could lead to reprisals from Muslim youth.

Mr. Hindy first raised the charges in a meeting in May with dozens of Muslim leaders and Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan. But he has also circulated flyers about the alleged incident, urging Muslims never to talk to CSIS. His subsequent interviews to newspapers and Toronto talk-radio stations have outraged CSIS leaders.

"Enough is enough," said Ms. Locke, the CSIS spokeswoman. She said the spy service investigated the complaint and "could not substantiate these charges."

But CSIS took the complaint seriously enough to forward it to the Toronto Police Service, she said. The police force was not prepared to comment on the status of that investigation yesterday.

Government investigators probing the complaint have previously told Mr. Hindy they found no evidence of wrongdoing, but he isn't giving the spy service the benefit of the doubt.

"We believe CSIS should stop terrorizing us," he said in a flyer.

CSIS and Mr. Hindy have had a tangled history.

Court records indicate that the spy service has asked several men suspected of links to terrorism about Mr. Hindy, who was close to Ahmed Said Khadr, a Canadian who became friends with al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and moved his family to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. Pakistani security forces killed Mr. Khadr in 2003.

Mr. Hindy has long alleged that CSIS has been wrongly spying on him and members of his mosque. He has appeared in court as a character witness for several immigrants CSIS accuses of al-Qaeda links.

He also blames the spy agency for the overseas arrests of several men -- including his own day-long interrogation by Egyptian authorities a couple of years ago.

"I speak my mind and I don't care what happens. But I get in trouble, many times," Mr. Hindy said in his interview with The Globe. "But you know what? This gives me the trust of young people."

He complained that more moderate Muslim leaders are hypocritical. "They want to be politically 100 per cent right. They say whatever the government wants to hear."

While his public comments run against the conciliatory tone of Muslim leaders who have lately spoken out against terrorism, Mr. Hindy is not alone.

Other Canadian Islamic leaders also question why Muslims must speak out against acts of extremism in Britain, especially given the carnage that takes place daily in Iraq.

For example, Tariq Abdelhaleem of the Dar Al-Arqam Islamic Centre in Mississauga recently posted an open letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin on his centre's website.

While condemning the attacks in the United Kingdom, Mr. Abdelhaleem says the bombings took place because "it is the country that is helping the American crusaders (or neo-conservatives if you wish) to kill innocent Muslims, and try to change the face of the Islamic faith in the Middle East.

"The attacks did not target Canada, Holland [for instance] or any other country," he writes. "It was a wise decision by your predecessor, Mr. Chrétien, to disassociate Canada from such imperialistic practices. That decision was made to protect the Canadian public."

© Copyright 2005 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.​

A couple of days ago I suggested, at: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32640/post-243107.html#msg243107 that, we have to take a variety of active and passive domestic defensive measures including, inter alia:

Changing what young Muslims are taught about the West in schools and mosques here, in Canada - that may mean deporting sheiks and imans and the like and prosecuting religious leaders for hate crimes (those laws are on the books to 'protect' everyone) and incitement to violence.  Some religious leaders/teachers may just have to disappear

(emphasis added)

Iman Hindy is one of them; if he is not a Canadian citizen then he needs to be deported - the legal necessities, which need to look an awful lot more like Australia's, may requite the use of the Constitution's notwithstanding clause although I doubt there is a political 'leader' (of any stripe) with the moral courage (maybe physical, too - â ?these peopleâ ? are dangerous, after all) to do the job.  If he is a citizen then he needs to disappear - that doesn't mean he has to die, not necessarily, not if we have a secure 'holding' facility.

I agree with Tariq Abdelhaleem of the Dar Al-Arqam Islamic Centre in Mississauga when he says that our, the West's, aim is to â ?... try to change the face of the Islamic faith in the Middle East.â ?  That is precisely what we should, in my view must be doing.  Forget about 'bringing democracy to the Middle East,' it is unlikely to take hold and endure until after there is an Arabic (and Persian/West Asian, too) enlightenment which may not be possible until after there is an Arab-Islamic reformation which, if our history is any guide, will take a generation or more to accomplish and will be extraordinarily bloody.