What RESERVES trades are hiring? Bachelor degree in Computers

[chrys]

Hello Everyone,

I am 32 years old and I've been living in Canada since I was 18. I studied Bachelor of Computer Science from Canadian university and I also did 1 semester of graduate school (Masters in Computer Science) but haven't finished graduate studies yet. I have over 4 years of experience working as Software Engineer as such. But I have been working as IT Project Manager for last 3.5 years.

I've always wanted to join the reserves but I did not have Canadian citizenship until recently. I am wondering if anyone can advise what trades are hiring? I am interested in joining Reserves - Officer route.

My preference is Air Force reserve -> Navy Reserve -> Army Reserve

Ideally, I'd like to do some technical  trade(Signals Officer? Information Systems Officer? Information Security Officer? etc). I looked up CF website but I am told that CF website is not best source of what trades may / may not be hiring as it's not updated frequently enough.

I live in Toronto. I understand that if I am accepted into Reserves, I'd have to attend BMOQ which can be done on part-time basis. So, I won't have to quit my civilian job and won't need to take too much time off from work. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I understand Borden is couple of hours from Toronto and I don't mind the drive to Borden for training or even weekend parades, week-night parades, if that becomes my unit (?)

 

[ModlrMike]

I can't answer all your questions, but here's what I can tell you:

The best way to find out what's available is to visit the unit you're interested in joining and talk to their recruiter. Reserve units do their own recruiting.

Computer Science is compatible with a good number of Officer classifications, but again it depends on what unit you join.

You MAY be able to do BMOQ part time, but don't count on it. You WILL have to do your occupational training during the summer. That's how the Reserve training model is set up. Where and how long depends on what trade you join.

The ESA in Ontario governs Reservist Leave. While it specifies operations, most large employers will extend the provisions to cover training. You shouldn't have to quit your job to train with the Reserves.

Speaking solely for the Naval Reserve, MARS would be the closest occupation related to your degree. That being said, the training takes several months over three summers to qualify.

 

[Occam]

The odds that you'll find a reserve officer classification where you'll use your degree are slim and none.  You might get in as a MARS officer (or something else) and hope to find a A (part time) or B class (full time) position where your degree will be used, but as for regular employment at a reserve unit - you'll not have much luck.

 

[DAA]

http://www.forces.ca/en/centres/findarecruiter-110

Enter your location (ie; postal code or Province and City).  The page will populate with the information and under the "search" you will find "tabs" with all the Reserve Components and which units are hiring which occupations.

Good luck!

 

[cryco]

bmoq should be available as weekend training throughout the non-summer months, it's 12 weekends of training. The next two parts of your training, the leadership part and the occupational training (2 and 3 months respectively) are only done full time in the summer months. You don't necessarily need to quite your job, you just need an employer that can allow you to take some unpaid leave (I'm currently discussing this with my employer).

 

[chrys]

Thanks everyone for replies. I met with Naval recruiter earlier today at HMCS YORK.
Naval Reserve training is done with Regular forces so it's 10+ weeks full-time. Plus another 10 weeks training. So, basically, approximately 20 weeks full-time training. Plus, 2-3 more summers depending on the trade you choose and qualify for.

I called Air Force recruiter and although they don't have any suitable position right now, they also train with reg forces so it's full-time commitment during training. No option to take weekend training.

Next, I am going to make appointment with Army Reserve and see how that works. From reading the forums, it seems like Army is the only place which provides basic training on weekend/part-time basis. AF and Navy do not.

 

[cryco]

the Army PRES has weekend training available. All  NCM trades have BMQ weekend training available and all but infantry have phase II available as weekend training as well..The officer route only offers the BMOQ as part time. (My recruiter got me all that info) The rest is full time

 

[chrys]

the Army PRES has weekend training available. All  NMC trades have BMQ weekend training available and all but infantry have phase II available as weekend training as well..The officer route only offers the BMOQ as part time. (My recruiter got me all that info) The rest is full time

So,
1. only the ARMY Reserves have weekend training? Both Naval and Air Force require full-time basic training (approx 10 weeks). Correct?

2. So:
Army reserve - weekend basic training + weekend officer training?
Navy reserve - fulltime basic training (approx 10 weeks) + fulltime officer training (another 10 weeks)?
Air Force reserve - fulltime basic training (10 weeks approx) + fulltime officer training (another 10 weeks)?
Is my understanding (above) correct?

2. Do you get paid while you are on FULL-TIME training? If so, how much (general idea of how much I get to keep in-hand after taxes and deductions)? The reason I ask is because my employer won't give me paid-time-off to attend training. So, if full-time training is unpaid, I should start saving right now so I can attend full-time later.

 

[211RadOp]

You will be paid during training.  Officer Cadets receive a gross pay of $99.12/day if you work over 6 hrs that day.  Under 6 hrs is half that rate.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/pay-rates.page

 

[cryco]

So,
1. only the ARMY Reserves have weekend training? Both Naval and Air Force require full-time basic training (approx 10 weeks). Correct?

I only know about the army PRES. Have no clue about navy and air.

2. So:
Army reserve - weekend basic training + weekend officer training?

The officer route only has the basic training available on weekends.

 

[chrys]

Thanks!

Few more follow-up questions -

I am a little confused with Class A, B and C. When you join reserve, what class are you? what class are you DURING training? And what class are you during your weekly parades/weekend parades?

When you join reserves as an officer, what is your rank/title during training? Is it something like 2LT-in-Training?

When do you become full 2LT ? After Basic Training or
after Basic Training + Officer Training or
after Basic (approx 10 weeks) + Officer (approx 10 weeks) + Trade (1 or more whole summers)?

How many years of service do you perform as a reservist before you are promoted to Lieutenant? Is there a system of internal testing to grow in ranks? Like after 2 years of being 2LT, you write a test to see if you qualify to be Lieutenant?

In general, what is career progression like for reservists? Can a reservist aspire to grow into Major or even Col in say, 15-20 years of reserve-service?

I am currently a manager in a technology company in my civilian life. So, I am mostly interested in technical trades so I don't think rank matters at all but your pay is tied to your rank. So, I am curious how career-progresses (how pay-progression is like) I mean, it is possible that at some point rank (pay) would increase enough to be comparable to civilian pay. When that happens, I may just want to work full-time (maybe transfer to Reg Force, if possible) and be able to quit my civilian job altogether!

So far I have found following interesting trades:
* Communications and Electrical Engineering Officer
* Air Combat Systems Officer
* Signals Officer
* Aerospace Engineering Officer
* Intelligence Officer
* Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Officer
* Engineer Officer
* Military Police Officer
* Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officer


* 

 

[211RadOp]

Thanks!

Few more follow-up questions -

I am a little confused with Class A, B and C. When you join reserve, what class are you? what class are you DURING training? And what class are you during your weekly parades/weekend parades?

When you join reserves as an officer, what is your rank/title during training? Is it something like 2LT-in-Training?

Class A is part time work.  Class B is full time.  Class C is usually only when deployed into an active theater (Afghanistan for example but there are more).

You will be normally enrolled as an Officer Cadet (OCdt).  I am unsure as to when you are promoted to 2Lt, but I think it will be after you finish your occupation training.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Thanks!

Few more follow-up questions -

I am a little confused with Class A, B and C. When you join reserve, what class are you? what class are you DURING training? And what class are you during your weekly parades/weekend parades?

All you mentioned are Class A.  Class B is temp, full time in a Reserve Force position.  Class C is basically if you are filling a Reg Force position temporarily as a Reservist, say like a tour in Afghanistan or something like that.

When you join reserves as an officer, what is your rank/title during training? Is it something like 2LT-in-Training?

Officially its Officer Cadet.  You'll learn the unofficial names when you screw something up.  ^-^

So far I have found following interesting trades:
* Communications and Electrical Engineering Officer  This is an Air Force DEU trade from the Communications and Electronics branch.
* Air Combat Systems Officer  This is an Air Operations trade in the RCAF
* Signals Officer
* Aerospace Engineering Officer  This is an Air Operations trade in the RCAF
* Intelligence Officer
* Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Officer
* Engineer Officer
* Military Police Officer
* Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officer

 

[PanaEng]

If you come to Ottawa, we are hiring
33 CER (combat engineer, engineer officer) has a bunch of spots open - I won't say the number as other units might get jealous:
officers: 2 or 3 (preferably an Engineering degree program but a science degree may be acceptable)
ncm: quite a few including Geomatics Tech (TP and progression is still being debated though)

good luck

 

[chrys]

Thanks Eye In The Sky and 211RadOp.
So, you are an Officer Cadet until you've completed all three trainings Basic + Officer + Trade. I am guessing that'd take atleast 3 years.
So, for first 3 years - you are Officer Cadet. During this you get paid 85% of $99.12.
After that, you become 2LT when you've completed all three training.  And you get 85% of whatever is in pay chart for 2Lt.

What about career-progression (pay progression) after you make it to 2LT? To earn comparable salary as I do from my Civilian job, I'd need to get to Col or higher. I'd love to serve full-time but given my liabilities (mortgage, education loan, family), I can't quit my civilian job and take a significant pay cut at this point in life. Maybe later, I'll be able to when my wife has finished her education and gotten a job too. So,  in the meanwhile, I am wondering how many years does it take to get to that level (or if it is at all possible in Reserves, given that reserves serve part-time and are unlikely to get as much field experience).

If you come to Ottawa, we are hiring
33 CER (combat engineer, engineer officer) has a bunch of spots open - I won't say the number as other units might get jealous:
officers: 2 or 3 (preferably an Engineering degree program but a science degree may be acceptable)
ncm: quite a few including Geomatics Tech (TP and progression is still being debated though)

good luck

Thanks! If I don't find an appropriate role in Toronto -> Borden -> Hamilton, I'd drive to Ottawa. I am in Toronto so I'd shortlist in order of distance!
Also, I have a Bachelor of Computer Science (not engineering) though.

 

[cryco]

If you come to Ottawa, we are hiring
33 CER (combat engineer, engineer officer) has a bunch of spots open - I won't say the number as other units might get jealous:
officers: 2 or 3 (preferably an Engineering degree program but a science degree may be acceptable)
ncm: quite a few including Geomatics Tech (TP and progression is still being debated though)

good luck

ho now, you're making me jealous here... I have to wait till next year for a spot.

 

[Brasidas]

You will be normally enrolled as an Officer Cadet (OCdt).  I am unsure as to when you are promoted to 2Lt, but I think it will be after you finish your occupation training.

Incorrect. A completed degree often means 2Lt. Hard and fast, no, but I have repeatedly seen 2Lts show up even at the beginning of BMQ, directly after enrollment. With occupation training, I've seen them promoted to Lt effective two years after enrolment (usually later promotion, with backdated effective date).

It can take longer, particularly when you don't get on and complete courses in a timely manner. Moreover, timings are different for those who do not have a degree completed.

What about career-progression (pay progression) after you make it to 2LT? To earn comparable salary as I do from my Civilian job, I'd need to get to Col or higher. I'd love to serve full-time but given my liabilities (mortgage, education loan, family), I can't quit my civilian job and take a significant pay cut at this point in life. Maybe later, I'll be able to when my wife has finished her education and gotten a job too. So,  in the meanwhile, I am wondering how many years does it take to get to that level (or if it is at all possible in Reserves, given that reserves serve part-time and are unlikely to get as much field experience).

If direct pay-equivalency is an issue, you should probably look elsewhere. The basic working rank for an experienced reserve officer is Captain. A major, for instance, is generally the senior officer of a sub-unit such as a Signal or Armoured Recce Squadron, if not a Regiment in the reserve. If its a healthy unit in a large area, you'll be a Captain for a while. Find a job that you enjoy, and enjoy the role. If you can't afford the time for the money, that's your call.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Incorrect. A completed degree often means 2Lt. Hard and fast, no, but I have repeatedly seen 2Lts show up even at the beginning of BMQ, directly after enrollment. With occupation training, I've seen them promoted to Lt effective two years after enrolment (usually later promotion, with backdated effective date).

Hmm.  I don't like or support the "instant 2Lt" thing.  They don't even know how to lace up boots properly yet.

Seems the more fitting way is to get them thru BMQ as OCdts, then backpay them or whatever AFTER completion of initial trg.  :2c:

Not sure what the current practice is now for Reg Officers at CFLRS, but most DEOs came in as OCdts (there was one DEO who was a Capt upon swearing and wore his rank during both IAP and BOTP).  Others such as Nursing Os, were Ocdt until they graduated BMOQ, and were retroactively promoted to Lt with backpay to their swearing in date.  Most DEOs were promoted to 2Lt after BMOQ or shortly after when they headed to the Language School for SLT, etc.

 

[Brasidas]

Hmm.  I don't like or support the "instant 2Lt" thing.  They don't even know how to lace up boots properly yet.

Seems the more fitting way is to get them thru BMQ as OCdts, then backpay them or whatever AFTER completion of initial trg.  :2c:

I don't disagree at all.

 

[Cui]

Is the "instant 2Lt" an army reserve thing only?

In the naval reserves, everyone who I went on basic with who had degrees still held the rank of NCdt. until they graduated. The only person who was and ASlt was a CIC officer who OT'd over to MARS.