What to tell a lad seeking info for OT.

[Biggoals2bdone]

Need some advice on what to say to one of the younger lads working under me.  He's a loggy, mid-20s and tired of loggy boring snooze fest stuff as he says, and he's wanting to OT.  He has no clue what else to do though (trade wise), so how can I recommend him something when all he's mentioned is he wants his job to be more interesting and challenging then counting socks.

 

[MikeL]

I would tell them to have a bit of initiative and research the different trades(forces.gc.ca) and CANSOFCOM(if he's interested in that route).  Without knowing what their interests are it will be hard to help them out.  They should sit down and think about what they want to do for a career,  what interests them.  Once they figure that out they can look at the different trades(forces.gc.ca) and pick out some that interest them.  At that point if they are eligible to OT they could go see the BPSO.


*edited to better say things/clarify*

 

[Shamrock]

Tell him to show some initiative and research the different trades(forces.gc.ca) and CANSOFCOM(if he's interested in that route).  Also go see the BPSO(may need to go through CoC for a appointment)

If he really wants to do something else,  he should be putting in the effort to see what else is out there.  Otherwise he could just be all talk and just want to *****/moan but do nothing about it.

Contrary to popular belief, Google is not a principle of leadership.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Tell him to read CFAO 11-12 first.  He might not even be able to apply.

 

[MikeL]

Contrary to popular belief, Google is not a principle of leadership.

Until this person that wants to OT actually knows what he wants to do,  there isn't too much that can be done IMO.  He needs to actually figure out what he wants to do,  ie research the other trades.  Once that is brought up to the CoC then they can help,  ie setting up an appointment with the BPSO,  getting info on the process,  if he can even OT a this time, etc. 

To paraphrase,  you said my advice is worthless,  but you didn't add anything to this topic yourself.  What would you recommend? 

 

[Shamrock]

The link I sent the individual seeking to be of assistance to his subordinate via PM.

Want a copy?

 

[MikeL]

Nope,  don't need the link,  as I do not require it.

I still fail to see how what I said is wrong,  if someone wants a change in their career,  they should sit down and think about what they want.  If it is an OT they should be doing research into trades that may interest them.

 

[GnyHwy]

Contrary to popular belief, Google is not a principle of leadership.

Google in the context that you used it, as a noun, would not be a principle of leadership, because the principles of leadership are all verbs.  However, if used as a verb i.e. to google, or the act of googling to gain information on the internet, it could apply to any of the below principles.

1) Achieve professional competence and pursue self-improvement

3) Solve problems; make timely decisions

8 ) Mentor, educate, and develop subordinates

10) Maintain situational awareness; seek information; keep current

11) Learn from experience and those who have experience

 

[Shamrock]

<snip>
8 ) Mentor, educate, and develop subordinates
<snip>
(11) Learn from experience and those who have experience

And there is where I take issue at instead of positive leadership, soldiers and seekers of information are directed to a search function rather than being taken by the hand, as they have asked to be, and given the framework for future research.

I apologize for the threadjack.

 

[GnyHwy]

No worries, just having some fun.   I can agree with dropping number 8, but I would leave number 11. 

A few quick searches through this site alone would produce some pretty good advice from some pretty experienced persons.

 

[DAA]

Until this person that wants to OT actually knows what he wants to do,  there isn't too much that can be done IMO.  He needs to actually figure out what he wants to do,  ie research the other trades. 

The first question that needs to be asked is "Do you want your career to be "within" the CF or would you prefer to do something in the private/public sector?"  The second question should be "If you were on civi-street, what kind of career do you think you would want to pursue?"  Based on your lads answer to the second question, then you may be able to provide some guidance or steer them in the right direction.  OT'ing for the sake of OT'ing because you don't like your current occupation, usually results in yet another OT 4-8 years later down the road.  Why refer them to the BPSO, when they themselves don't know what they want, that is passing the buck.  Once they have some sort of idea as to what they are "interested" in, then you can put them in touch with someone who is in an occupation associated with their interests and let them go from there.  At this point in time, there is not much that can be done until the lad decides where they want to go with their life....

Each and every member of the CF is a "Recruiter"... 

 

[GnyHwy]

I agree with Skeletor and DAA.  He needs to know what he wants well before he sees the BPSO.  Once he figures it out, then he needs to research those trades so he understands as best as possible before he sees the BPSO.  Treat it as a job interview.  You wouldn't walk into a job interview not knowing anything about the company you are applying for.

Try this with him.  Tell him to take a week to figure out what he wants.  Once he comes back with an answer or two or three, tell him to research them.  If he can't do this to prepare himself for what might be a decision for the rest of his career, then he is not serious about it.

 

[DAA]

And there is where I take issue at instead of positive leadership, soldiers and seekers of information are directed to a search function rather than being taken by the hand, as they have asked to be, and given the framework for future research.

I too felt your pain about similar posts until I received a few PM's (thank you folks)... on some of my posts which made me step back and have a second look, which led me to the difference between "Leadership" and "Counsel"......looking at the raw definition of the two was an eye opener....

 

[MikeL]

The first question that needs to be asked is "Do you want your career to be "within" the CF or would you prefer to do something in the private/public sector?"  The second question should be "If you were on civi-street, what kind of career do you think you would want to pursue?"  Based on your lads answer to the second question, then you may be able to provide some guidance or steer them in the right direction. 

Goes along with the advice I gave,  to have the person sit down and put some time into thinking about what they want to do.  Once they have an idea,  you can go from there. 

Why refer them to the BPSO, when they themselves don't know what they want, that is passing the buck. 

Is this directed at me?  I never said they should go to the BPSO and let them figure it out.  Once the person has an idea of what they want to do and what trades interest them then they should go talk with a BPSO.

Once they have some sort of idea as to what they are "interested" in, then you can put them in touch with someone who is in an occupation associated with their interests and let them go from there. 

If that is possible,  personally if the trade is not within my unit or base I wouldn't know how to get someone in touch with someone in another trade unless I knew them, or asked around if someone knew someone in X trade.

At this point in time, there is not much that can be done until the lad decides where they want to go with their life....

100%

And there is where I take issue at instead of positive leadership, soldiers and seekers of information are directed to a search function rather than being taken by the hand, as they have asked to be, and given the framework for future research.

For something like looking into other trades,  they shouldn't have to be taken by the hand.  By telling them to research the trades on the recruiting website,  they would be able to see what else there is in the CF that may interest them.  Or at least coming to you knowing what they are interested in and you could pick out some possible trades they can look into. 

 

[DAA]

Is this directed at me?  I never said they should go to the BPSO and let them figure it out.  Once the person has an idea of what they want to do and what trades interest them then they should go talk with a BPSO.

If that is possible,  personally if the trade is not within my unit or base I wouldn't know how to get someone in touch with someone in another trade unless I knew them, or asked around if someone knew someone in X trade.

Absolutely NOT directing anything at you just expanding on previous recommendations above you.

If the trade is not within your unit/area, there is absolutely no reason to stop you from contacting the respective CM to say "I am from CFB X and have a subordinate who may be interested in OT'ing to your occupation.  Who can I put them in touch with locally that could provide occupational information?"  I am sure they would be willing to help.

 

[MikeL]

If the trade is not within your unit/area, there is absolutely no reason to stop you from contacting the respective CM

Noted,  something I hadn't considered,  I'll be sure to remember that if I have someone coming to me wishing to OT.


Also,  I forgot the obvious,  this website can also get a member in touch with a large variety of trades.

 

[DAA]

Noted,  something I hadn't considered,  I'll be sure to remember that if I have someone coming to me wishing to OT.

And in my opinion, if a Pte/Cpl CM is unreceptive to such a request for information/assistance, then they are not doing their occupation any good...  The only fall back could be to contact the school that conducts the training or as a last resort a Recruiting Centre....I am sure that would raise some eyebrows!

 

[Shamrock]

To the OP:

1.  Visit the PSO DWAN site.  The link I provided you is for Edmonton; in LFWA, this is considered the standard.  Prior to briefing your soldier, peruse the options available, such as AVOTP and CEOTP.  Determine if he or she qualifies for either of these.  Learn what administration will be required by him and by you, such as the correct forms, required transcripts, etc.

2.  Counsel the member.  Determine if he or she interested in an OT and for what reasons.  Determine what trades he or she is interested in.  Discuss options.

3.  Visit the DGMC DWAN site and research the trade, preferably with the member.  Research its entry standards and be cognitive they may not be reflected on the PSO's site (or vice versa); in case of conflict, go with the more stringent requirement.  Read the trade's OS; if feasible, provide a print-out for the member's reference.  Try to find the QS for this trade.  Some, but not all, are available on Documentum.  This will give him or her a more solid (theoretical) foundation on the career, its arc and employment and training requirements, which in turn adds weight during his or her PSO interview. 

4.  Allow the idea to percolate.

5.  Assist the member with remaining administration required at his or her and your levels.

6.  Wipe hands on pants.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Thanks for everything guys! I'll check this stuff out and pass it on to the youngin'

 

[Journeyman]

Also,  I forgot the obvious,  this website can also get a member in touch with a large variety of trades.

But that's not 'taking the member by the hand, as they have asked to be.'    :