Whats your prediction for General Hillier's Big Honking Ship (BHS)

[Ex-Dragoon]

Interesting to see that quite a few have voted for a domestic design.

 

[Kirkhill]

I wonder if they would be satisfied with with a domestic build or even a domestically spec'd and fitted version of a foreign build vessel.  Such a solution would still be possible with an Enforcer design.

The Dutch built Rotterdam in Holland.  The Spanish built their versions in Spain.  The Dutch built Jan van der Wijk in Bulgaria (IIRC) and fitted her out in Holland.  The Brits simplified the design and built them at competing yards in England and Scotland.  In every case specs, design, build and fitting out were individualized and split up.

 

[FSTO]

With the Schelde Enforcer we could have it built in Europe and outfitted here, or purchase the building rights and build in Canada. Be advised that we would likely be maxed out with JSS, Icebreakers and the Frigate Refit. I really don't think we have the capacity to build all of these ships at once.

 

[Kirkhill]

Quote
but I'm not convinced that your "bolt on" weapons and sensors would work.

That makes two of us SKT - probably at least three with Ex-Dragoon.

Although - thinking about it a bit more - isn't that essentially what an Air Defence Battery does?  As I understand the way that the airfield defence batteries of 4ADR worked they drove their Skyguard radar, 35mm guns and ADATS onto an airfield along with their CPs and Kitchens then "bolted" them down Edit: and wired them in (the ADATS at least can be netted by hardwire so that one gunner can fire all netted missiles IIRC.  I'll try and find the reference.) for the duration.  Perhaps an air defence gunner can jump in here.  Naval gunners wouldn't have to worry about maintaining tracks, engines, generators or finding the galley.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Remeber though for the most part Air Defence Gunners are dealing with solid ground, could they do the same in Sea state 2 and above?

 

[Kirkhill]

How long does it take a Naval Reservist to find their sea legs?  And Sea State 2 in a BHS (emphasis on BIG) is that likely to be an issue?  This landlubber slept quite peacefully in a SeaState 5 on a 200m ship (and regretted being born on a 40m fishing boat in SeaState 3).

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

For a naval reservists not long but there are always exceptions to every rule. With anything though it depends on climatizing to the new enviroment, we have had army types embarked before and they were sea sick at when it was like glass. Still would prefer a fitted system then calling up ye olde air defence battery and ask for a manpad detachment embarked.

 

[Kirkhill]

I too appreciate that a permanently fitted system would be a better option - but for sake of argument let's suppose that it was less capital cost to go with a containerized system (no guarantee agreed).  Or that it cost less from a maintenance and training position (maybee, maybe not).  Or that it allowed Naval Reservists in Calgary or Winnipeg an opportunity to contribute meaningfully to manning a vessel that would spend most of its life at dockside without having to wait for opportunities to go to Victoria or Halifax to train?

I am not thinking that the guys on green or light blue would be driving up to the dock in their MMEVs/ADATS.  More that you would have blue-suiters dedicated to the AirDefence role just as you apparently have for the Mine Clearance role.

Besides - if these systems are containerized perhaps they could be slung ashore to supply close range air defence at places like Kandahar.

 

[darmil]

That would cool if we could build it in Canada.I would get on that project if it was to be built here.I'm a journeyman welder with the boilermakers union. ;D

 

[cobbler]

Sailors on such ships are likely to get less sea-duty than patrol vessels like the CPFs and the DDHs. 

Are you kidding? Amphibs are amongst the hardest working ships in any navy!

The MEO's really earn there money keeping those things in working order.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

As I understand the way that the airfield defence batteries of 4ADR worked they drove their Skyguard radar, 35mm guns and ADATS onto an airfield

Not surprisingly, that was not without it's difficulties as well.  When I was at the school in Gagetown, we would frequently deploy "perfectly serviceable" ADATS or Guns/skyguard into the field, only to find it didn't work.  My opinion?  High tech gear doesn't like to sit around on shelves- it likes to be run.  And the salt water environment is a whole lot less forgiving than land is.

I also expect that, Canada being Canada, if we bought a box of weapons and sensors to be fitted as required, it would sit in a warehouse somewhere, get neglected and become obsolete within a few years time.  No one would take serious ownership of it, no tactical development would take place.  At least if the weapons are onboard all of the time, once in a while the Captain has to take the ship out and sign off his CRRs (combat readiness requirements).

Out of sight, out of mind...

Cheers!

 

[Navy_Blue]

Lets actually get keels down for the JSS then we can talk BHS. Would be nice to start mid lifes on CPF's someday too.  Not till 2010 for the first two to start.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

We might as well talk BHS as its a key part of General Hillier's plan for the CF.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Lets actually get keels down for the JSS then we can talk BHS. Would be nice to start mid lifes on CPF's someday too.  Not till 2010 for the first two to start.

But JSS is progressing. I think last time I looked at the PMO site they had the paper out of specifications....so it's rolling along.

 

[Kirkhill]

Not surprisingly, that was not without it's difficulties as well.  When I was at the school in Gagetown, we would frequently deploy "perfectly serviceable" ADATS or Guns/skyguard into the field, only to find it didn't work.  My opinion?  High tech gear doesn't like to sit around on shelves- it likes to be run.  And the salt water environment is a whole lot less forgiving than land is.

I also expect that, Canada being Canada, if we bought a box of weapons and sensors to be fitted as required, it would sit in a warehouse somewhere, get neglected and become obsolete within a few years time.  No one would take serious ownership of it, no tactical development would take place.  At least if the weapons are onboard all of the time, once in a while the Captain has to take the ship out and sign off his CRRs (combat readiness requirements).

Out of sight, out of mind...

Cheers!

Oh well....there's more than one sheet of paper for the drawing board. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Maybe we need to shop around for something used while we are waiting for a made in Canada design.
This is what we did while waiting for the MCDVs....remember the Port Moresby and the other one...can't remember the names but they were stopgaps till we got the new class.

I wonder if there are any large ROROs out there that could serve as a platform to do the job while we get our BHS designed and built. Or maybe another navy (USN) has something suitable that they can't man or need right now that we could take over.

Having said that....we gotta be careful we don't get into another debacle like the "used sub" one.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I think we'll pick up one of the older Whidbey LPD's to build skills, then perhaps buy something new or fairly new. Whatever it is, I would be very surprised if the ship had a carrier style design like Ocean. It will also have to be very inexpensive, and highly disposable. 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I would hope we go strictly to the Enforce or other so in case the government got cold feet we would have something in place and not stuck with old junk.

 

[Long in the tooth]

Originally the Navy requested two replacements for the Provider/Protecteur/Preserver and two troop landing veh (smaller versions of the Iwo Jima).  Our wise politicians immediately tried to combine the two, much as they would a strategic bomber and submarine.

I have no confidence in actually receiving ANY new kit.  The government will have us "plan to plan" until I'm long dead.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I think we'll pick up one of the older Whidbey LPD's to build skills, then perhaps buy something new or fairly new. Whatever it is, I would be very surprised if the ship had a carrier style design like Ocean. It will also have to be very inexpensive, and highly disposable.   

Here's a pretty cool link on Whidbeys and other amphibious ships
http://peoships.crane.navy.mil/amphibs/default.htm

I think this is the right way to go myself....why doesn't the Navy listen to me....lol
Apparently the hovercraft LCACs are not a consideration for us.
They came in pretty handy in Op Unison though I understand....40 minute transit to shore vice 2 hours on the LCs. Had some buddies that went with our ships that told me that.