When did batmen fall out of use?

[Edward Campbell]

Old Sweat's experience and training more or less mirror mine, including some experience with the Brits and in the UK.

In some units both electrification and motorization/mechanization changed the need for and role of the batman. At some times, in some units, in the '60s, the batman was a batman/driver in other times (same decade) and places he was a signaller/batman and in still others a plain, ordinary batman.

While it was nice to have someone to help with the everyday administrivia (and the boot and belt polishing) depending on one's role there was (or should not have been) any time for an officer to look after himself in the field ~ when batmen began to disappear the people in the platoon HQ looked after the officer because he was too busy to prepare a meal or rig a hootchie for himself.

The batmen also provided the bulk of the Officers' Mess staff, especially in the UK (and in Germany based UK regiments) where things were, sometimes, a bit spartan.

When I was in a brigade HQ the RCSigs driver/operators looked after the LOs and junior staff officers in the field and we had civilian cleaners/laundresses in garrison and one old fellow (a German civilian) to look after boots, belts and uniforms. HQ 1 (BR) Corps in Bielefeld had civilian 'helpers' for staff officers (living in and living out) in garrison and RSigs driver/operators looked after staff officers in the field.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... In some units both electrification and motorization/mechanization changed the need for and role of the batman. At some times, in some units, in the '60s, the batman was a batman/driver in other times (same decade) and places he was a signaller/batman and in still others a plain, ordinary batman.

While it was nice to have someone to help with the everyday administrivia (and the boot and belt polishing) depending on one's role there was (or should not have been) any time for an officer to look after himself in the field ~ when batmen began to disappear the people in the platoon HQ looked after the officer because he was too busy to prepare a meal or rig a hootchie for himself ....

The few times I was a Reserve pl signaler (late 70s-early 80s), I was specifically told this was one of my duties in the field - helping "look after" the platoon commander in just the sort of way you mention.

 

[Greymatters]

My experience was in the Canadian army, with some exposure to the British army in Germany in the sixties. While we tended to have an egalitarian attitude, the Brits - and they were extremely class conscious back then -

I found that a significant number of officers from a wide range of European countries were still very 'class-conscience', even up to about 2002.  Its even more common if you are dealing with members from Middle East and Central Asian countries.  If not along aristocratic lines, then certainly along soldier-officer lines.  I believe that Australians and Canadians are the most relaxed in this regard.



       

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

While we tended to have an egalitarian attitude, the Brits - and they were extremely class conscious back then - felt it was right and proper that the lower classes served their social betters.

I have done a fair bit of Signalling for various Officers over the years, and I've seen both highly positive and highly negative leadership styles set in regards to this particular point.  One incident in particular comes to mind to highlight the positive (and from a British Officer no less):

I was in Afghanistan, attached to a Coy from the Royal Marines.  I was there as a LO/Canadian national systems comms Link, but I was really just an extra body: there was the normal contingent of RM Signallers in the Coy HQ as well.  On one occasion we were up on the rooftop of a compound we'd occupied for the evening, having a particularly hard time getting the satellite shot burned in.  I was up there with all the RM Sigs guys for well over an hour trying to find a way to get the problem sorted out.  In the meantime everyone else went to ground except for sentries, etc.

When we finally fixed the antenna and got down off the roof, we found that the OC had taken the time to lay out all of our sleeping bags for us, and he'd brewed us up some tea.  The fact that he would do that was tremendously impressive to me, and I don't think I'll ever forget it.  Whenever I explain the duties and responsibilities of an Officer's Signaller to some new guy who's never done it before, I now use this example to demonstrate the (ideally) team-based aspect of the relationship.  The Signaller is the Officer's fireteam partner.  They work together as a team.  The Signaller will normally be the one who has the time to do all of the routine administrative tasks that fire team partners do for each other, but in this particular case the roles were reversed and the Officer in question was a good enough guy to lend a hand.  That's how it should work in this day and age.  The idea that there should be any aspect of servitude towards ones' social betters is one that belongs in the past, in my opinion (though at times it still seems to be quite widespread).

Edit: Typo

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

Just a question related to this and to willy's post, is it standard practice for the company signaler to serve as the aide to the coy cmdr? When I was an OCdt, I was always assigned as company signaler and besides signals duties, a significant portion of this position was preparing the OC's coffee and meals, his hooch, his bivvy bag/sleeping bags, lighting his cigarettes and so forth. I also brewed coffee for the CSM, the platoon commanders and the platoon warrants and lit their cigarettes if requested. I didn't mind at all because I figured that all OCdts had to do this all as a part of slowly climbing the ladder to being a leader. I kind of saw it as starting at the very bottom rung of the ladder and necessary to help me see the strong teamwork aspect of being an Officer. However, is this practice that common, or is it entirely dependent on the officer leading the Signaler?

One last note, while it wasn't the most exciting thing to do, having to light cigarettes and brew coffee for my superiors, it was actually pretty cool in a way as it gave me a chance to meet a lot of the Officers and Senior NCOs. Plus it made me an expert at brewing a mean cup of coffee .

 

[chrisf]

Please tell me you're exaggerating when you say you had to light their cigarettes?

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

Please tell me you're exaggerating when you say you had to light their cigarettes?

Sadly, it's no exaggeration.

I only really lit the officers' cigarettes (which wasn't too bad, considering only 2 or so of them smoked), the Senior NCOs saw how ridiculous the whole idea was and lit their own smokes, but I still had to brew their coffee as per the company commander's orders. When I was in the role of Company Signaler, the Senior NCOs always gave me the best advice on what documents to read up on concerning combat procedures and leadership skills much more so than the officers and really helped me out in a few jams.

Like I said, it wasn't the most exciting set of tasks, but it gave me a great opportunity to meet seasoned leaders. I chalk it all up to a pretty good learning experience and to this day I still feel as though it was just me having to climb the ladder up from the bottom rung.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The duties of the company signaller are varied, but he is, usually, a bit special - of course he helps the OC (and the CSM) with daily routines, but, as others have said, officers made up their signaller's bedroll on many an occasion and, a fair number of times, I made and served the meal, too.

Basically the Coy CP has a two person team: OC and CSM and the signaller goes with the OC when he leaves the CP - which is often. It was normal, when I worked in 0A to hear Cpl B speaking as 29  because Maj R hated talking on the radio (and we didn't like hearing his stammering, either). We all knew he (Cpl B) wasn't 29, per se, but he was C/S 29, he could see and hear what was going on and we treated his messages as what they were - the 'word' from 29. Company signallers are, usually, smart and reliable fellows - the Sergeants' Mess is full of former signallers, for a good reason.

Life was even more complex for the Recce Pl signaller; he was, as often as not, the entire Recce Pl CP crew and he had to filter all the reports and prepare and send succinct, timely and accurate SITREPS to the whole battalion net. He also made sure OC Recce Pl had a hot meal and a place to put his head down when that worthy gentleman made one of his rare visits to his own CP. Depending on the individual, 2IC Recce Pl was either a big help, when he was the best subaltern in the battalion, or a hinderance, when he was a newly joined subaltern who was, de facto understudying the Recce Pl signaller.

The question is: is there anything wrong with making the coffee and rolling out the OC's fart-sack? The answer is; no, of course not; the Coy CP is a team and teammates work together. In a long (35+ year) career, I never saw anyone habitually light someone else's cigarette - of course, when we were in 0A, if I had my lighter out I lit up the signaller, too. (And, almost invariably, I had to give Dave Halfkenny, the Int Sgt, a light to go with the cigarette he bummed because the bugger usually had nothing but the habit.) My point is the same: teams are teams; CP teams are pretty small and close knit. In those days I had a batman who, along with one or two of his mates, looked after the officers and NCOs and signallers in 0A, 74 (the FSCC) and 95 (the Int wagon) because they all worked long, long hours and were bloody tired when they finally got to put their heads down - the head of a signaller needs a place to sleep just as much as does the head of a captain or major.

It, helping out, was never a big deal when I was on regimental duty.

 

[chrisf]

[Note: Edited to add a quote, as I realized it appeared I was disagreeing with the comments from E.R. Campbell]

I still feel as though it was just me having to climb the ladder up from the bottom rung.

No, being expected to brew coffee is one thing, and quite normal if you're assisting staff officers, but being expected to light their cigarettes?

That's absolute horse excrement.

Anyone who demanded it this day in age, was quite firmly in the wrong.

I assure you, anyone ordering you to light their smokes as a function of your duties is NOT a seasoned leader and NOT an example you should be following.

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

No, being expected to brew coffee is one thing, and quite normal if you're assisting staff officers, but being expected to light their cigarettes?

That's absolute horse excrement.

Anyone who demanded it this day in age, was quite firmly in the wrong.

I assure you, anyone ordering you to light their smokes as a function of your duties is NOT a seasoned leader and NOT an example you should be following.

I wholeheartedly agree.

This particular officer and I never quite got along, not that it matters, but he had a definite sense of entitlement about him.  I guess he figured a few stripes on his rank pull-on meant that he could do whatever the heck he wanted. I'm out of the CF now, and when I go back, it'll certainly not be to that unit, as that officer is still there, and from what I've heard through the grapevine, has even more clout within that regiment. I hold no grudges against the man; he just pushed the limits of his authority. I soon learned that officers could be a very strange lot with their personalities and leadership competencies widely variable. It still was a learning experience though. I was so green and naive at the time, I figured that it was acceptable since he was the OIC and I was just the FNG OCdt.

However, there was one particular officer within that regiment who served as my example of leadership to follow. He had commissioned up from the ranks and was an outstanding leader and a great guy. He never hesitated to offer advice and was a definite mentor for me. I recall the first day we met, we got to talking and he asked me my first name, and actually during our future conversations addressed me by my first name. I also remember that we exchanged phone numbers and he told me that if I ever needed help with anything related to preparing for courses or studying procedure/tactics manuals to give him a call and he'd help me out. He was such an exemplary officer, in my opinion, that he should have been given command of the company, but it almost seemed as though he was pushed onto the sidelines.

 

[a78jumper]

I am staying in the N lines in Pet, and the age of the building is evident in the sign on the laundry room door: "Batmen's room"

Evidently the doors have neither been replaced or even painted in quite some time, but this leads to the question; when did the practice of having a Batman end in the Canadian forces?

N101 perhaps.....I lived in that one and I-105  mid 80s and remember seeing those signs even then which struck me as very old school. I did ask a long in the tooth ex RCASC Major I worked for at CABC mid 90s and he told me he had a batman when first commissioned in 1966.

As for shitty jobs I had to make coffee for a LCol arse in NDHQ early 90s as a Captain of eight years when the Major was on the road...in fact he demanded it, and had a hissy first morning it was not made while I was trying to get his notes printed for the DEM. I told the Major when he returned from Bosnia that next time such a demand was ordered up I was going to piss in the pot first....guess it beats battery acid some Patricia WO was the recipient of.

 

[Blackadder1916]

As for shitty jobs I had to make coffee for a LCol arse in NDHQ early 90s as a Captain of eight years when the Major was on the road...in fact he demanded it, and had a hissy first morning it was not made while I was trying to get his notes printed for the DEM. I told the Major when he returned from Bosnia that next time such a demand was ordered up I was going to piss in the pot first....guess it beats battery acid some Patricia WO was the recipient of.

You wouldn't be the first to do so. http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49828/post-440245.html#msg440245

 

[Greymatters]

Many supervisors look at the description line of 'perform duties as directed' and think it to mean they can order a subordinate to do any minor task they can think of; even those tasks that leadership and personal dignity usually demands that they should be doing for themselves.

Its a problem in both the military and the civilian world, but fortunately not a common one IMO...

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Batmen fell out of use when they all started slacking off together.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

Batmen fell out of use when they all started slacking off together.

(SLOW CLAP/RISE FROM SEAT)....

Well played sir.......well played.