When is Annual leave required for Military events?

[Fishbone Jones]

Honestly! Your comment is very disrespectful and not helpful at all. If you think that having a day to support your mess, create camaraderie and create relationships is too much for a Reg Force person you should join the Reg force to see whats it's like to do this 24/7. This indignity is my job this isn't something I do for fun 1 night a week.
I am forced to pay mess dues, I don't many civilian organizations that are forced to pay into a club. But if you are a member of the club it's nice to partake in club offerings. The mess is a military staple and is more than just a place to sit and drink beer. This is where we form friendships, camaraderie, discuss work matters and network etc. The mess functions within our working hours which is 24/7 and mess functions can take place anytime of the day. That being said there can be a mess function on your Anniversary, child's Birthday or other personal day that may be important to you but you are forced to attend the mess function. That's fine and part of our work environment and is very acceptable because we all support our messes financially and with our time.
So yes to pay $80 (some of that goes back to the mess) along with my monthly dues for a mess function which happened to be golf this time during working hours I don't think was asking for anything out of the norm for a soldier.
Also we don't contact the media and complain that's something other groups do.

Let's start off with your question.

There is absolutely no reason, or policy, for your employer to give you free time off, to participate in a sport\ mess event. Zip, nada.

If they do, great. If not? Too bad, so sad.

Now to correct some of your other misinformation.

Reservists pay compulsory mess dues;

Reservists don't parade once a week as a hobby. It's a job they do, many on top of their regular 9-5 job. The majority do it out of commitment and a sense of duty;

Regarding the above, many Reservists freely use their vacations and time off to attend military events and courses, as opposed to asking for free time off from their job;

Many Reservists are far more invested in their Messes than the majority of their Reg counterparts; and,

Also we don't contact the media and complain that's something other groups do.

I'm not sure what you're getting at or trying to imply, but there have been plenty of cases of Reg Force pers contacting the media when things don't go their way.

In short, check your facts before letting your biases make an idiot out of you.

Get a shorter pedestal. It won't hurt so much when you fall\ get pushed off it.

Grow a thicker skin.

Enjoy your golf game

 

[George Wallace]

Honestly! Your comment is very disrespectful and not helpful at all.

How is it disrespectful? 

If you think that having a day to support your mess, create camaraderie and create relationships is too much for a Reg Force person you should join the Reg force to see whats it's like to do this 24/7. This indignity is my job this isn't something I do for fun 1 night a week.

Now that could be considered disrespectful.  It does look like you are falling into the category of person that does have a 'sense of entitlement' that was mentioned as a general statement above.

I am forced to pay mess dues, I don't many civilian organizations that are forced to pay into a club.

Wrong.  There are many civilian organizations that are forcing their members to pay union dues, although not the same as Mess dues, but still compulsory.  Many organizations and Associations also demand dues on a regular basis. 

But if you are a member of the club it's nice to partake in club offerings.

Yes.  Indeed it is nice to partake in club offerings.  The club (MESS) should also consider the timings of such events, so as not to conflict with WORK.

The mess is a military staple and is more than just a place to sit and drink beer. This is where we form friendships, camaraderie, discuss work matters and network etc. The mess functions within our working hours which is 24/7 and mess functions can take place anytime of the day. That being said there can be a mess function on your Anniversary, child's Birthday or other personal day that may be important to you but you are forced to attend the mess function. That's fine and part of our work environment and is very acceptable because we all support our messes financially and with our time.
So yes to pay $80 (some of that goes back to the mess) along with my monthly dues for a mess function which happened to be golf this time during working hours I don't think was asking for anything out of the norm for a soldier.

Interesting.  Yes, the Mess is where we develop friendships, camaraderie and network which is a good thing.  The Mess does serve a purpose.  However, I don't know of any Mess that operates 24 and 7, nor a Mess Manager or Secretary who works those hours.  As Journeyman asked, is this a compulsory Mess event or just one of those Mess acquired Golf Passes from a local Golf and Country Club that is free for a Mess member to use when they have 'time off'?  If it is the latter, then I would think that dapaterson's comments may have been right on the button.  Sorry, but a sense of entitlement does not trump the Regulations. 

(Time Off: Shift worker, CTO, Annual/Special/Short Leave, weekend.)

Also we don't contact the media and complain that's something other groups do.

By using this forum, you have opened that door.

 

[gcclarke]

I'm confused.  Is this a mandatory mess event?

Pfft, no such thing as a mandatory mess event. They're not your chain of command. They can't order you to do a damned thing.

The closest that can happen is your chain of command deciding to order everyone to go to a mess event, but then it really becomes a military duty that happens to coincide with a mess event.

 

[Remius]

Pfft, no such thing as a mandatory mess event. They're not your chain of command. They can't order you to do a damned thing.

The closest that can happen is your chain of command deciding to order everyone to go to a mess event, but then it really becomes a military duty that happens to coincide with a mess event.

Well some units have messes where the RSM and/or CO can indeed order you to attend.  I'm guessing it is more the Regimental messes.  You're splitting hairs though.  If a CO/RSM orders you to attend it is mandatory despite whatever definition you give it. 

 

[gcclarke]

Well some units have messes where the RSM and/or CO can indeed order you to attend.  I'm guessing it is more the Regimental messes.  You're splitting hairs though.  If a CO/RSM orders you to attend it is mandatory despite whatever definition you give it.

And in that event, it becomes a military duty. And if you're fulfilling a military duty, then you clearly can't be on leave. And you most certainly can't be expected to take leave for such an event.

 

[gmandnd007]

Let's start off with your question.

There is absolutely no reason, or policy, for your employer to give you free time off, to participate in a sport\ mess event. Zip, nada.

If they do, great. If not? Too bad, so sad.

Now to correct some of your other misinformation.

Reservists pay compulsory mess dues;

Reservists don't parade once a week as a hobby. It's a job they do, many on top of their regular 9-5 job. The majority do it out of commitment and a sense of duty;

Regarding the above, many Reservists freely use their vacations and time off to attend military events and courses, as opposed to asking for free time off from their job;

Many Reservists are far more invested in their Messes than the majority of their Reg counterparts; and,

I'm not sure what you're getting at or trying to imply, but there have been plenty of cases of Reg Force pers contacting the media when things don't go their way.

In short, check your facts before letting your biases make an idiot out of you.

Get a shorter pedestal. It won't hurt so much when you fall\ get pushed off it.

Grow a thicker skin.

Enjoy your golf game

Ok the first part of your statemnet is what I was looking for. After more than a decade in Pet and other postings its always been what we do. This is my first posting being the only military person surrounded my civies.

You took alot of liberties with my statement about doing this for 3 hrs a night for fun. I'm not going to trash Reservists you seem to have alot of the facts on that.

Yup some do contact the media, what cases are you talking about? Serving members? hmm can't think of too many cases actually why not qoute a few.
My skin is pretty thick, I've been doing this long enough. I asked a simple question and when people start spewing crap it deters from the origianal simple question.
And your final statement about a pedistal? The question was simple and to call someone an idiot shows me that maybe your a reservist with a beef and you wrote something that touched a nerve.

Thanks for 1 line of sense though but again is that fact or are you just assuming there is no policy that would dictate.

 

[gmandnd007]

There's going to be summary trial if you don't go to a Mess golf game?  I'd take that charge.

Mess event or gathering not a golf day obviously unless ordered to go and that does happen.

 

[gmandnd007]

There's going to be summary trial if you don't go to a Mess golf game?  I'd take that charge.

Mess event or gathering not a golf day obviously unless ordered to go and that does happen.

 

[Remius]

GMAN:  here is one case where a a CF member went to the media (in a very dishonest way as well) when she didn't get what she felt was entitled to her...

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/111346.0.html

 

[gmandnd007]

How is it disrespectful? 

Now that could be considered disrespectful.  It does look like you are falling into the category of person that does have a 'sense of entitlement' that was mentioned as a general statement above.

Wrong.  There are many civilian organizations that are forcing their members to pay union dues, although not the same as Mess dues, but still compulsory.  Many organizations and Associations also demand dues on a regular basis. 

Yes.  Indeed it is nice to partake in club offerings.  The club (MESS) should also consider the timings of such events, so as not to conflict with WORK.

Interesting.  Yes, the Mess is where we develop friendships, camaraderie and network which is a good thing.  The Mess does serve a purpose.  However, I don't know of any Mess that operates 24 and 7, nor a Mess Manager or Secretary who works those hours.  As Journeyman asked, is this a compulsory Mess event or just one of those Mess acquired Golf Passes from a local Golf and Country Club that is free for a Mess member to use when they have 'time off'?  If it is the latter, then I would think that dapaterson's comments may have been right on the button.  Sorry, but a sense of entitlement does not trump the Regulations. 

(Time Off: Shift worker, CTO, Annual/Special/Short Leave, weekend.)

By using this forum, you have opened that door.

Yup door opened. Unfortunately I only wanted an answer to a simple question. Yes No with some facts.  I can't find the answer and from what I've seen no one else has it either. It is an organized day of golf by the mess not a golf pass. No sense of entitlement here, the military doesn't owe me anything.
The comment about join the reg force was intended for those that were making comments without ever having served as reg force

 

[gmandnd007]

GMAN:  here is one case where a a CF member went to the media (in a very dishonest way as well) when she didn't get what she felt was entitled to her...

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/111346.0.html

Yes I totally agree with you "dishonest" and I wouldn't support her request either.  But still very rare and from young soldiers that don't have respect of the CoC. I'm asking about an event that is organized by the military. Thanks for the fact though.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ok the first part of your statemnet is what I was looking for. After more than a decade in Pet and other postings its always been what we do. This is my first posting being the only military person surrounded my civies.

You took alot of liberties with my statement about doing this for 3 hrs a night for fun. I'm not going to trash Reservists you seem to have alot of the facts on that.

Yup some do contact the media, what cases are you talking about? Serving members? hmm can't think of too many cases actually why not qoute a few.
My skin is pretty thick, I've been doing this long enough. I asked a simple question and when people start spewing crap it deters from the origianal simple question.
And your final statement about a pedistal? The question was simple and to call someone an idiot shows me that maybe your a reservist with a beef and you wrote something that touched a nerve.

Thanks for 1 line of sense though but again is that fact or are you just assuming there is no policy that would dictate.

I've actually been on both sides of the fence and both for a very long time. I don't choose sides.

I find it ironic that a person can make it to the rank of Sgt, where they are in charge of subordinates, yet have to come here for a simple explanation to even a simpler question.

If the seeking of this minor query of yours was so vital to your existence, your Chief Clerk could have answered it in one sentence over the phone.

If you come here crying the blues, you'll just have to accept what comes your way.

Anyone expecting to get a solid, honest answer from faceless people on the internet, can only expect to get what they get.

Call your clerk.

The 19th hole always has a phone.

 

[Remius]

Well it boils down to whether or not this is a sanctioned event or not.  It seems it isn't.  So yes, annual leave required to attend a non-work related function.

The thing is, is that there are several occasions where it is sanctioned.  Like x-mas parties, summer sports days or whatever (team building exercises etc etc).

Your organisation likely has some of.

But this is a mess event.  A mess that likely isn't directly tied to your place of employment.  I'm guessing the NDHQ Sgts mess.  So they put on a golf event during the week you choose to go to or not.

Your bosses are not being unreasonable, whether they are military or not.

 

[gmandnd007]

I've actually been on both sides of the fence and both for a very long time. I don't choose sides.

I find it ironic that a person can make it to the rank of Sgt, where they are in charge of subordinates, yet have to come here for a simple explanation to even a simpler question.

If the seeking of this minor query of yours was so vital to your existence, your Chief Clerk could have answered it in one sentence over the phone.

If you come here crying the blues, you'll just have to accept what comes your way.

Anyone expecting to get a solid, honest answer from faceless people on the internet, can only expect to get what they get.

Call your clerk.

The 19th hole always has a phone.

such a minor question but you didn't have any ref either?
Yup and there is beer there too, thanks.

 

[gmandnd007]

Well it boils down to whether or not this is a sanctioned event or not.  It seems it isn't.  So yes, annual leave required to attend a non-work related function.

The thing is, is that there are several occasions where it is sanctioned.  Like x-mas parties, summer sports days or whatever (team building exercises etc etc).

Your organisation likely has some of.

But this is a mess event.  A mess that likely isn't directly tied to your place of employment.  I'm guessing the NDHQ Sgts mess.  So they put on a golf event during the week you choose to go to or not.

Your bosses are not being unreasonable, whether they are military or not.

Thats where I was leaning I was just looking for a reference. Thanks

 

[Fishbone Jones]

such a minor question but you didn't have any ref either?

You're a Sgt. Go find it yourself.

IF you had asked your CC, you'd have had your answer by now, or is it possible you have too much pride to ask.

To keep asking for a policy, re: How does a soldier get free time off where no lawful need exists, is impossible to fulfill if there isn't one.

Enjoy your quest, some have better things to do than spoon feed you.

 

[gmandnd007]

You're a Sgt. Go find it yourself.

IF you had asked your CC, you'd have had your answer by now, or is it possible you have too much pride to ask.

To keep asking for a policy, re: How does a soldier get free time off where no lawful need exists, is impossible to fulfill if there isn't one.

Enjoy your quest, some have better things to do than spoon feed you.

Recceguy you keep spewing without reading. You must be bored! My CoC is all civi you might have missed that in my very first post. You need to read and understand before you jump in and start flappin those chops. Yup a Sgt and even turned down my WO. Can you imagine. Maybe I was on here asking because pride has nothing to do with it and this is ARMY.CA with forums and question topics? Maybe I even thought there are intelligent people (most are) here that actually enjoy helping each other out. Not just jumping on people and trying to put them down to feel big. Almost all of the comments were good banter but yours, well you just keep pretending this is important and fulfills your life somehow. Childish comments like yours remind me of those little man syndrome guys, I think you know what I mean.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Recceguy you keep spewing without reading. You must be bored! My CoC is all civi you might have missed that in my very first post. You need to read and understand before you jump in and start flappin those chops. Yup a Sgt and even turned down my WO. Can you imagine. Maybe I was on here asking because pride has nothing to do with it and this is ARMY.CA with forums and question topics? Maybe I even thought there are intelligent people (most are) here that actually enjoy helping each other out. Not just jumping on people and trying to put them down to feel big. Almost all of the comments were good banter but yours, well you just keep pretending this is important and fulfills your life somehow. Childish comments like yours remind me of those little man syndrome guys, I think you know what I mean.

OK. I'll spoonfeed you.....again.

Just because you tried to slip this in late at night.

Your not entitled to the time off.

There is no policy for bukshee time.

Now go whine to your civie cohorts about how hard the military treats you.

 

[George Wallace]

...... Yup a Sgt and even turned down my WO. ........

Your Civilian masters turned you down.... LIVE WITH IT. 

This topic is getting nowhere and spiralling down the drain. 

Before it is all flotsam, it is now LOCKED....End of story.