who has the right to military funerals

[mount]

HI Folks, It's been awhile since I was in the CF but I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the regulations concerning military funerals. I saw the Afghan Kandarhar news about the 3 soliders that were wounded (pull through lads). I saw that the Diplomat that was unfortunatly killed in that attack was buried with what seemed (& reported)to be full military honours. I was under the impression that only military were entitled to this honour as they are in the 'military'. In these sad circumstances is this courtesy extended to civilians &Y if so what are the limitations? Is there a 'means' test for this. I see heads of state have this done but Diplomats per se are not military as the are the dept of foreign affairs & therefore civilians & not heads of state. Can anyone clarify the protocol on this, seems a little disrespectful to the soliders that did & do serve in the military. ??? 

 

[Gunner]

The pallbearers excorted Mr Berry's remains out of Afghanistan to his final resting place in the UK.  They were members of the Provincial Reconstruction Team, the same organization Mr Berry belonged to in theatre.  We are doing things differently overseas (embedded diplomats, cida, RCMP, etc).  To me it only seems fitting that members of his team would bury him.   Wielding a gun is but one way to accomplish the mission...probably the better way is through diplomacy if it is achievable.

 

[GO!!!]

I agree that Glyn Berry should have been buried with a state funeral, as he died in the service of a federal department. "Full Military Honors" should be reserved for soldiers though.

I think that most Canadians were a little nonplussed that a "patriot", as the news reported, lived in London, and would be buried there.

 

[Gunner]

I agree that Glyn Berry should have been buried with a state funeral, as he died in the service of a federal department. "Full Military Honors" should be reserved for soldiers though.

Someone will have to describe what "full military honours" were provided to Mr Berry.  I think all he had was soldiers as pallbearers.  Those soldiers were his mates in theatre.

I think that most Canadians were a little nonplussed that a "patriot", as the news reported, lived in London, and would be buried there.

He was a Canadian, working as a Canadian Diplomat, within a Canadian Provincial Reconstruction Team, who the fuck cares if he wanted to be buried in the UK?  Sorry, don't buy your argument.

 

[the 48th regulator]

This is a good question, as I was thinking the same.  So I did a search (mind you it was over the last few days so I am not saying the "DO A SEARCH AND GO AWAY RESPONSE" as it took me some time)

A great link I will offer is the following

http://www.pwgsc.gc.ca/realproperty/text/pubs_ceremonial/page7-e.html

it goes to explain the various methods that we, as Canadians, Mourn our fallen.  The only reason I can see to it was he was working as a "member of the military" in charge of the diplomatic aspect of the Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team.  Very closely involved with military operations, and dying in the line of duty ones country.  To me that would deserve military honors, would you not agree?

A formal Biography of Glyn Berry..

Though his uniform was not a shade of green, he did his duty wrapped in the maple leaf...

May he rest in eternal Peace...

dileas

John "tess" Tescione

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

GO!!!,
Would the MND be given "Full Military Honors"?.....I mean he is just a civi.

 

[enfield]

I watched part of his funeral on CBC, and didn't see too many much in the way of "military honours". There was a military bugler and a piper (anyone know if they were British or Canadian?).

I did notice that the Canadian soldiers present in the Church were dressed in Desert CADPAT uniforms, not DEU's- I thought that was a little odd, but if they were the guys from the PRT there may not have been the opportunity to get their DEU's from Edmonton to London.

I was happy to see the military play a central role in the mourning and funeral. Too often the CF is pushed to the side in such State events, and the RCMP placed front and center. 

Bruce- I can think of few recent MND's who deserve Full Military Honours at their funeral. Besides, the whole idea of a minister in charge of the military is that they are a civilian.

 

[leadbyexample]

I agree that Glyn Berry should have been buried with a state funeral, as he died in the service of a federal department. "Full Military Honors" should be reserved for soldiers though.

I think that most Canadians were a little nonplussed that a "patriot", as the news reported, lived in London, and would be buried there.

Glyn Berry was born in the UK, and his family was also from the UK.  His funeral arrangements were made at the request of his family and his burial there was entirely appropriate.  If in fact he did receive "full military honours," I highly doubt you would be hearing any objections from the troops here at the PRT.

 

[Armymedic]

My opinion.
The circumstances of his death remove any opposition I might have had towards him having military honours.

 

[Hunter]

Though his uniform was not a shade of green, he did his duty wrapped in the maple leaf...

May he rest in eternal Peace...

dileas

John "tess" Tescione

Well said John!

 

[Matt_Fisher]

I did notice that the Canadian soldiers present in the Church were dressed in Desert CADPAT uniforms, not DEU's- I thought that was a little odd, but if they were the guys from the PRT there may not have been the opportunity to get their DEU's from Edmonton to London.

I find this a bit shocking.  While the overall important thing is that there were members of the CFs to represent the mission for which Glynn Berry died, appearing in desert cadpat at this formal, solemn function doesn't put forth an image of professionalism.

It wouldn't have been an impossible tasking for DND or DFAIT or whoever was organizing the funeral to have gotten the info on DEU sizing and accoutrement setup of the CF pers attending, sent a priority message to clothing stores in Edmonton, or wherever and had a full set of whatever approriate DEU tailored up ASAP and then put on an air transport to the UK for the CF pers. attending the funeral.

I give laurels to those standing the line for doing what their country asks, but rarely acknowledges with the amount of respect they deserve.
Darts to those back in Canada for not doing a better job in coordinating the funeral details to include proper dress arrangements for the CF pers. attending.

 

[dapaterson]

To answer the question in the title of this thread:  See QR&O Chapter 24, article 24.15:

24.15 – ENTITLEMENT TO MILITARY FUNERALS
Where the next of kin so desires, a military funeral:

  (a) shall, when practical, be accorded to
  (i) a deceased member of the Regular Force,
  (ii) a deceased member of the Special Force,
  (iii) a member of the Reserve Force who dies on service, and
  (iv) a deceased holder of the Victoria Cross; and

  (b) may, with the prior approval of the Chief of the Defence Staff or such officer as he may designate, be accorded to
  (i) a deceased member of the Reserve Force other than a member described in subparagraph (a), and
  (ii) a deceased former member.
(M)

 

[3rd Horseman]

Not much difference between a state and military funeral, in the end the big difference is who pays.

As D pat shows in his post the book does not allowe for Mr Berry to get a military funeral...guess the book is not always right.

I was very pleased to see his in theatre friends and team mates (brotherhood of war) show him the dignity of carring him to his grave, well done boys he deserved it.

Go swiftly Glen Berry you have done your duty and paid the ultimate sacrifice, we honour you as a member of the brotherhood forged by the crucible of war, we will never forget your name, RIP.

 

[from darkness lite]

Those of us here at the PRT think the funeral was very appropriate.  Civie or military, he died on active duty serving with us.

FDL

 

[big bad john]

Those of us here at the PRT think the funeral was very appropriate.  Civie or military, he died on active duty serving with us.

FDL

Appropriately said.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

This may or may not have been answered before, but I am looking for a more detailed answer.

1) If a current serving member of the CF (either reg or reserve) dies from non military related issues (natural causes, hit by a car, etc etc), does the military pay for his/her funeral services? 

2) If so, is there a certain amount of time that you need to be in, either reg or reserve, to be entitled to it?

3) Are past serving members, both reg and reserve entitled to DND paid funeral services as well?

I know these questions are coming out of left field, but I am curious.

Thanks!