Why Did Canada Change Our Salute

[onewingwonder]

"Long way up, short way down". Come to think of it, always reminded me of something out of the Kama Sutra.

 

[ctjj.stevenson]

Bite your tongue ....

That would have been what I would have said if I was one of the first members to answer this thread, and that it was the navy salute, but most people here have already stated that.


However, I've been noticing many older/senior officers that don't salute correctily. I've seen an officer salute with his hand parallel (and over) the slant of the beret. During the change of command ceremony that made Gen Hiller the CDS, I believe that I've seen most of his fingers separted during the playing of O Canada. Okay, these are two examples of the army, however, I don't understand how come the older a person is, the worse the salute is. ??? I guess that I might understand when I become older.

Good day! 

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Just to add my 2 cents worth.....Our current salute, from our RCN traditions, is nothing at all like an "American" salute.  I do think that if you can't see the difference, then you haven't looked at it close enough.  I think that ours is much more professional and snappier in its' presentation.  I think the Americans have a very sloppy salute compared to ours.  If you think that our salute is sloppy also, then those presenting it are at fault for the sloppiness, not the salute itself.  

You have obviously never seen a United States Marine pay respects to colors or a commissioned officer through execution of a hand salute then.

 

[TCBF]

"What I have noticed in Canada though, is a tendency for pointy-ended army types (usually Officers or SNCOS) to have the thumb held straight out from the hand, as opposed to tight against the hand, with elbow quite a bit lower than parallel to the ground."

No excuse for shoddy drill.  In CFRS Cornwallis, the recruits had to pass a saluting test, at the halt and on the march, before getting their 'cornflake' hat badges.  I have also taught officer cadets to salute with swords, which remains one of the most dangerous tasks I have ever performed in the military.

And....

Matt Fisher makes a good point: I have seen some very sharp American salutes.  The general degradation of Canadian dress and deportment over the last ten years should not encourage us to find fault with the militaries of other nations.  Lots of work to do at home, first.

Tom

 

[the 48th regulator]

What I have noticed in Canada though, is a tendency for pointy-ended army types (usually Officers or SNCOS) to have the thumb held straight out from the hand, as opposed to tight against the hand, with elbow quite a bit lower than parallel to the ground.

odd, never did it myself, nor, seen anyone of my fellow rank use type of salute either.  

Guess I am hanging out with the right kinda saluting SNCO's and Pointy heads..


dileas

tess

 

[rcd33b]

Command and logistical issues aside, the unification of the services, the disposal of historical uniforms and traditions, the visit to Canada by Charles DeGaulle (vive le Quebec Libre), the introduction of the Maple Leaf flag and the domination of government by French-Canadian liberals all took Canada by storm at about the same time.   It was not only about efficiency of command, it was cultural transformation   in the guise of establishing a seperate Canadian identity.   It almost happened to the RCMP, as well.   Trudeau replaced the RCMP wording on car doors with the word POLICE, saying that the RCMP confused people as to whether the car was a police vehicle (as John Diefenbaker said, a black car with white doors and a red light and siren on the roof generally led people to the conclusion they were being followed by a police car, not a taxi cab).   He also spoke about doing away with Red Serge.   It was only because of public protests which greeted Trudeau in the West that the "Royal" in the RCMP was not done away with, both literally and figuratively.   Thank heavens the RCMP retained Red Serge and as of 1981 (when I left the Force) still taught dismounted British Cavalry Drill in Depot Division.

In case you couldn't tell, my vote is for the British style salute.   I know I was being rather subtle in my opinion.

 

[onewingwonder]

odd, never did it myself, nor, seen anyone of my fellow rank use type of salute either.  Guess I am hanging out with the right kinda saluting SNCO's and Pointy heads..

48th,
my comments were not meant to be derogatory, as that salute does not look sloppy. Just wondering if it was a "style" which tended to be picked up over the years. I was thinking of it later on, and the picture in my mind actually showed that their hands tended to be tilted back slightly, exposing some palm. Thinking of that, it looks like a cross between the current salute and the old Brit salute. Wonder if it may have started as a "protest" post-unification.

 

[McG]

Hands up for Queen and country
Cadet salute no sign of creeping Americanization
The Edmonton Journal
August 1, 2005

Re: "Eagle spreads its wings," by Bill Besse, Letters, July 25.

I am writing to clarify some misunderstandings that Bill Besse has regarding Sea Cadet (and Canadian Forces) drill and ceremonial procedures.

The salute that Besse observed the Sea Cadets use, which he refers to as a "U.S.-style salute" (with the palm of the hand facing downward) is, according to E.C. Russell's Customs and Traditions of the Canadian Forces (1980), the naval salute. It is the salute that was formerly used by the Royal Canadian Navy and has been used by the Canadian Forces since the unification of the three services (Navy, Army and Air Force) in 1968.

The form of salute that Besse would have known during his 25 years in the Royal Canadian Air Force, in which the palm of the hand is held flat and faces outward, was formerly used by both the Canadian Army and the RCAF before unification (and is still used by the RCMP). But it has not been used by the Canadian Forces for almost 40 years.

Both forms of salute are part of the wealth of customs and traditions that the Canadian military services inherited from their British counterparts, going back to the days when "the sun never set on the British Empire."

The fact that the U.S. military also use the naval salute shows that the Americans have also inherited many military customs and traditions from Britain.

So please rest assured, Bill Besse, that the form of salute which you saw the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets use at Commonwealth Stadium to honour their Queen and their country is not a sign of creeping Americanization but is, in fact, a time-honoured tradition inherited by the Canadian Forces (and the Canadian cadets) from the Royal Canadian Navy and, ultimately, from that most British of services, the Royal Navy.

Rick N. McKown,
Lieutenant-Commander, Commandant, Regional Cadet Instructor School (Prairie)

 

[Armoured Signaller]

  Here is a good one, why not go back to the 'old school' British salute from the days gone by of the palm of the hand facing toward the person being paid the compliment.  Always found a warm spot when my old RSM; who was around when Centurion was a rank and not a tank, used it when handing off the Regiment to the Adjudant.  <sigh> The good ol days.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think the CF has more important issues to fix other then how we salute....

 

[paracowboy]

how 'bout we just flash gang signs at each other, and carry on with the friggin' mission?

Beret colours, cap badges, uniform designs, forage caps, and now the salute...nice to realize that our priorities are firmly in place.

 

[Edward Campbell]

how 'bout we just flash gang signs at each other, and carry on with the friggin' mission?

Beret colours, cap badges, uniform designs, forage caps, and now the salute...nice to realize that our priorities are firmly in place.

Keep up, young fellow!  We've moved way past that in the other thread; we're now on to regimental marches.

 

[onecat]

It's called forum, so anything game even how to salute. One can't always complain about under funding and frontal attacks. ;D

The one we don't need is bring back british traditions, we're a grown up country now we can create our own traditions.. .

 

[Glorified Ape]

how 'bout we just flash gang signs at each other, and carry on with the friggin' mission?

HA! Awww, that had me in stitches. Gold... pure gold.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

  Here is a good one, why not go back to the 'old school' British salute from the days gone by of the palm of the hand facing toward the person being paid the compliment.   Always found a warm spot when my old RSM; who was around when Centurion was a rank and not a tank, used it when handing off the Regiment to the Adjudant.   <sigh> The good ol days.

Because we're not British would be my guess.

The good old days?  You mean the 1960s when the Canadian Militia was stood down from warfighting training and used only for civil defence duties?  When armoured regiments stopped training on tanks and trained with picks and shovels and gasmasks instead?

Or the good old days of the 1970s, when post-Vietnam fallout and a Prime Minister who loathed the military unified the military (not a bad idea in its self) and stripped everyone of all their traditions, leaving the remaining few to soldier on mostly ignored and mildly detested?

Or did you mean the 1950s when we used WW II vintage kit like bolt action rifles and Sten Guns  while our enemies trained with submachine guns and assault rifles?

Let's be careful what we wish for, eh. 

 

[Infanteer]

Or the good old days of the 1970s, when post-Vietnam fallout and a Prime Minister who loathed the military unified the military (not a bad idea in its self) and stripped everyone of all their traditions, leaving the remaining few to soldier on mostly ignored and mildly detested?

Unification was in the 60's under Pearson, not the 70's under Trudeau.

 

[McG]

"Civillianization" was under Trudeau.

 

[Haggis]

how 'bout we just flash gang signs at each other, and carry on with the friggin' mission?

Yeah, great freakin' idea, Paracowboy.  I flashed a gang sign at my new OC and yelled, "Yo, holmes!"

He fired four rounds at me!!!

How was I supposed to know he was from Toronto???

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Unification was in the 60's under Pearson, not the 70's under Trudeau.

In theory but not in fact; some of the major corps (RCOC etc) soldiered on until after Trudeau took the helm; many of the new branches came into existence on Trudeau's watch.  The "old" uniforms and traditions also soldiered on into the 1970s in reserve units.

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/structure.htm

 

[Infanteer]

The Act was signed into law in February of 1968, a few months before Trudeau came into power.  So in fact it was a law that came into effect (ie: no more RCN) in the 60's under Pearson.  Of course, 2 months later Trudeau would take over as Prime Minister so the implementation was, as you state, largely executed under his mandate.  However, as Douglas Bland's Chief's of Defence points out, the ideological battles between the military and DND was fought and won by the Unification Crowd in the 60's under Hellyer - the point is that you can't stick all the blame for the CF's problems on Trudeau.