another tale: 435 and 436 squadrons in Burma, before all the Dakotas disappear.
Why does Canada suck at telling its own stories
- Thread starter FSTO
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depends. MASH told a tale for years, still is.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Hyena Road was terrible
Halifax Tar
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At least in Greyhound they Yanks paid a passing homage to our efforts in BoA.
Canadian Naval Memorial Trust
Canadian Naval Memorial Trust
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It's kind of strange actually because production budgets do not equate to good entertainment. I appreciate the point that the examples make but I'm starting to look at my own viewing habits. I tend to look at my own ones these days and find that I get much better programming through streaming services than broadcast/cable these days.
Take Britbox for example. The UK has produced dozens of crime/detective series which are high quality entertainment, IMHO. So much so that my usual American fare of NCIS, FBI, Marshalls etc etc in all their derivative forms has just become formalistic, unrealistic, over-the-top dreck that I've stopped watching. Yes, the BBC gets more money but many of these shows are non-BBC produced. Their budgets are lower, but their writing is better and, in many cases, the acting is better - heck, even "Murder in Paradise" which has dreadful acting has more entertainment value than the average US show.
My gauge of a good film or series is "am I invested enough in this character, that I care about what happens to him or her?" That's not just will the character die, but even leave the series, or will the series carry on so that I can get more of the story. The Brits do that better than others. Most American series I've given up on. Canada? Well, I give a new series two episodes for me to decide whether I'll watch it continuously. Few Canadian ones pass that test. "Saint Pierre," "Son of Critch," "Amazing Race Canada," and (Lord help me) "The Great Canadian Baking Show" have, but that's about it.
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Nevertheless, it was about Canadians in a contemporary conflict, so I give them a B for trying.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Fossil
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It's kind of strange actually because production budgets do not equate to good entertainment. I appreciate the point that the examples make but I'm starting to look at my own viewing habits. I tend to look at my own ones these days and find that I get much better programming through streaming services than broadcast/cable these days.
Take Britbox for example. The UK has produced dozens of crime/detective series which are high quality entertainment, IMHO. So much so that my usual American fare of NCIS, FBI, Marshalls etc etc in all their derivative forms has just become formalistic, unrealistic, over-the-top dreck that I've stopped watching. Yes, the BBC gets more money but many of these shows are non-BBC produced. Their budgets are lower, but their writing is better and, in many cases, the acting is better - heck, even "Murder in Paradise" which has dreadful acting has more entertainment value than the average US show.
My gauge of a good film or series is "am I invested enough in this character, that I care about what happens to him or her?" That's not just will the character die, but even leave the series, or will the series carry on so that I can get more of the story. The Brits do that better than others. Most American series I've given up on. Canada? Well, I give a new series two episodes for me to decide whether I'll watch it continuously. Few Canadian ones pass that test. "Saint Pierre," "Son of Critch," "Amazing Race Canada," and (Lord help me) "The Great Canadian Baking Show" have, but that's about it.
An astounding admission from a German, I would say
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Chicken-versus-egg question: why doesn't the public seem to want quality military history content of any kind if there's not enough momentum to make it commercially profitable? I'm not a big "let the market alone decide" kind of guy, but if there was enough demand, there would likely be more supply.
My WAG on this front, in no particular order:
CBC could do stuff like this, but part of the problem may be an ideological "war's not our first priority" bent, as well as how hard it is for big, bulky bureaucratic machines to change course or get ideas through.
My WAG on this front, in no particular order:
- How many Canadians has war directly affected these days?
- How many Canadians even know military pers, full- or part time?
- How shitty a job does the info-machine do of sharing the stories - before/during/after operations?
- How much demand is there given that only a on-one-hand number of MSM outlets have military reporters?
- As others have suggested, how many Canadians have been exposed to interesting, appealing & engaging history curriculum on the military in school?
CBC could do stuff like this, but part of the problem may be an ideological "war's not our first priority" bent, as well as how hard it is for big, bulky bureaucratic machines to change course or get ideas through.
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It's kind of strange actually because production budgets do not equate to good entertainment. I appreciate the point that the examples make but I'm starting to look at my own viewing habits. I tend to look at my own ones these days and find that I get much better programming through streaming services than broadcast/cable these days.
Take Britbox for example. The UK has produced dozens of crime/detective series which are high quality entertainment, IMHO. So much so that my usual American fare of NCIS, FBI, Marshalls etc etc in all their derivative forms has just become formalistic, unrealistic, over-the-top dreck that I've stopped watching. Yes, the BBC gets more money but many of these shows are non-BBC produced. Their budgets are lower, but their writing is better and, in many cases, the acting is better - heck, even "Murder in Paradise" which has dreadful acting has more entertainment value than the average US show.
My gauge of a good film or series is "am I invested enough in this character, that I care about what happens to him or her?" That's not just will the character die, but even leave the series, or will the series carry on so that I can get more of the story. The Brits do that better than others. Most American series I've given up on. Canada? Well, I give a new series two episodes for me to decide whether I'll watch it continuously. Few Canadian ones pass that test. "Saint Pierre," "Son of Critch," "Amazing Race Canada," and (Lord help me) "The Great Canadian Baking Show" have, but that's about it.
Three of the Brits best shows are derived from Dutch or Belgian shows:
Van der Walk, Professor T, and Patience. Although Professor T was better with the original Belgian cast.
Other countries can and do produce good popular shows that tell stories.
The problem may start with people wanting to preach rather than entertain.
Private enterprise only gets paid if they entertain.
Government pays people to preach.
....
Have you noticed that popular movies don't get Oscars and that critics' choices are often not popular.
Canadian movies: financed by government and validated by critics, not audiences.
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Or is it a "Field of Dreams" scenario? If you build it, they will come.
Why not the CAF directly in the same vein as the US Army did with "The Big Picture"?
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I have seen German TV shows and other than "Babylon Berlin" they've been kind of - meh - even the ones with nudity.An astounding admission from a German, I would say
Babylon Berlin - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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Ideally, a GREAT piece would attract eyes, but in the current environment, with so much other entertainment out there, and so much social media distraction luring eyes, I think it would be a big gamble to spend to tell a Canadian military story really, really well in an entertaining and engaging way.
Would it make money and/or would it get clicks? I wish it didn't come down to this, but realistically, it seems to now.
I guess I don't have as much faith that so many people would come even if it's a solid production, given all the other competition for eyes.
Never heard of "The Big Picture" before - thanks for the reference! Even had a Canadian Army episode:
I'm going to do more digging, but if it aired between 1951 and 1964, I suspect American audience appetites were quite different during the Korean war and during the Cold War than they would be now. Another factor: 1964 is an interesting cut off, given the whole U.S. Vietnam dynamic. I also notice the U.S. military doesn't seem to be doing anything similar now, but I stand to be corrected. And if they do, how many stations are picking it up/running it now?
Also, to be hugely cynical, if the CAF did such a piece on, say, the Medak Pocket, based on past CAF/Government of Canada story-telling experiences, would it be the watered-down version without any shooting or confrontation that might offend people? If so, is that really what it should be getting across to Canadians about the huge job troops did in that shitty situation?
That's why to me, the issue isn't whether good stories can be written/produced, it's about how many Canadians want to read/see them?
FSTO
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To be clear, I'm not talking just about military stories, but the entire Canadian cultural milieu. We're fairly decent at comedy but that seems to be it.
I have other thoughts about our obsession with being accepted in the United States professional sports leagues (including NCAA which is just another pro league IMO) much to the detriment of our own pro leagues (and yes I get it, the money is soooo much better down there). But that could be its own thread.
I have other thoughts about our obsession with being accepted in the United States professional sports leagues (including NCAA which is just another pro league IMO) much to the detriment of our own pro leagues (and yes I get it, the money is soooo much better down there). But that could be its own thread.
OldSolduer
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And a lot of our creative types have left Canada for the US - William Shatner, Neil Young, Alanis (dual citizen) are just three off the top of my head.
