Why we pay Reservists what we do (Including Reg v.s. Cl B v.s. Cl C pay, and Double-Dippin')

[Occam]

If I remember correctly, CF members who were injured were being put into a holding pattern in ...... I thought.... the PRL.  They did not belong to any one Reserve Unit, and were administered through the CF. 

You're thinking of the Service Personnel Holding List (SPHL), where injured RegF people could be posted to free up a position so that a healthy person can be posted into it.

 

[MARS]

At the risk of taking this thread further away from the stated title, here is the latest NAVRESGEN on administration of the MARCOM PRL:

  01  231939Z  JUN  08  RR    UUUU                  N11-3 04318

            NAVRESHQ QUEBEC
            NAVRESGEN

UNCLAS NAVRESGEN 027/08 N11-3 04318
SIC WAF
BILINGUAL MESSAGE/MESSAGE BILINGUE
SUBJ: ADMINISTRATION OF THE MARCOM PRIMARY RESERVE LIST(MARCOM PRL)
REF: A. CFAO 2-8
B. MARCORD 9-1 (DRAFT)NOTAL
1. NAVRESHQ IS ADMINISTERING THE MARCOM PRL ON BEHALF OF CMS IAW REF
A. THE MARCOM PRL IS AN ELEMENT OF THE NAVAL PRIMARY RESERVE. ALL
DIRECTIVES PERTAINING TO THIS DELEGATION OF AUTHORITY WILL BE
INCLUDED IN A FORTHCOMING AMENDMENT TO MARCORD 9-1 (REF B)
2. ONE OF THE MAIN ELEMENTS OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE MARCOM PRL
IS THE STATUS OF EMPLOYMENT IN THE NAVAL RESERVE. THE BASIS OF THE
NAVAL RESERVE POLICY IS THAT A MEMBER WORKING FOR THE NAVAL RESERVE
SHOULD GET THE BENEFITS OF THE PRIMARY RESERVE. THE BENEFITS
AVAILABLE TO SUPP RES MEMBERS VICE PRIMARY RESERVE MEMBERS ARE
SIGNIFICANTLY LESS. THE DIFFERENCE IN BENEFITS WILL SOON BE PUBLISHED
ON THE NAVRES WEBPAGE
3. IT IS THE INTENTION OF THIS HQ TO ENROL ALL PERSONNEL WHO ARE
CURRENTLY ATTACH POSTED FROM THE SUPP TO THE MARCOM PRL WHERE THE
PERIOD OF EMPLOYMENT IS EXPECTED TO BE MORE THAN 6 MONTHS (NOT
NECESSARILY CONTINUOUS). THIS POLICY APPLIES TO CLASS A, B OR C
SERVICE. A MEMBER OF THE SUPP RES IS NOT OBLIGATED TO ACCEPT THIS
OFFER
4. MEMBERS ENROLLED AND POSTED ON MARCOM PRL ON AN ESTABLISHED POSN
WILL BE ADMINISTERED AS OTHER PRIMARY RESERVISTS BY A HOST URS. THEY
MAY FURTHER BE CONSIDERED FOR POSTING TO AN ESTABLISHED NRD POSN
SHOULD IT BE INTENDED THAT THEY WILL BE SERVING AT THAT NRD AND THAT
A POSN IN THE NAVRES TOTAL ESTABLISHMENT IS AVAIL
5. DETAILED ADMIN PROCEDURES FOR ENROLMENT IN THE NAVRES AND POSTING
TO THE MARCOM PRL WILL BE FURTHER DEFINED IN DUE COURSE. THE HOST URS
WILL BE REQUIRED TO COMPLETE A CF 444 ENROLMENT DOCUMENT. MED AND
FITNESS REQR ARE COMPULSORY
6. UNITS WHERE SUPP RES MEMBERS ARE CURRENTLY EMPLOYED WILL BE REQ 
TO CONFIRM BY EMAIL MBR ACCEPTANCE AND CO S CONCURRENCE

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I recently went about buying back some Public Service time and Reserve time from the 70-80’s. The PS time was easily figured out, but they estimated that it would take a year to year and half to figure out what I am eligible to buy back from the military. They used the year I joined and year I left to calculate possible eligible time, although I knew we would not be getting all of it. We elected to pay lump sum for what I thought I could get and monthly payments on that which they thought was possible. As the new fiscal year was coming that locked in all payments at the current rate, once Apr 1st rolled around the cost to me would have jumped 4%. There is no real risk, if they determined that you have less eligible time than you paid for, you get a refund, your only loss is the potential interest you might have earned putting the money elsewhere. I would certainly recommend this approach. I suggest if you are youngish flush with cash and have time you could buy back. Buy it now! Waiting as I did means I am paying $11,000 per year for that time. My young assistant is buying back her time at $800 a year. However as the males in my family are long lived, it will be a 50% return on that investment down the road. 

 

[1feral1]

I think the whole pay issue between CF res/reg has to be revamped.

Here the Reserves are tax free pay and up to 200 days a year, and any time with the regs on a contract is at their rate. None of this us/them pay wise.

If you are ex Reg, you get a non-discounted rate to keep one interested in Res svc, so we get more pay that Res who have no Reg time for same job and rank, about $10-$15 more a day.

There is also a home loan scheme with excellent benifits. Too bad the CF does not see outside the circle.  There  is no pension for Res and Reg (used to be DFRDB for Regs - some still on it), we have a super-annuation scheme for Regs and nothing for the Res. I am told this is being reviewed.

Res pay = Reg pay even part time on a daily basis (7 day work week can even be more), and with field pay on a 7 day a week basis Res is more and this pisses them off. The them used to be me, ha! So when Res go in the field say for an annual 16 day ex, with or without Regs we get more.

OWDU

 

[McG]

The looks of it, the PRL may be a little secret that has not been fully exposed or exploited.  We may need a SME to come forward to explain it.

If I remember correctly, CF members who were injured were being put into a holding pattern in ...... I thought.... the PRL.

You are thinking of what used to be Service Personnel Holding List (SPHL) and is not the Retention & Transition List (RTL) - This is a regular force thing.

A PRL is unit which exists solely to be the home unit for full time reservists employed in non reserve units (like NDHQ).

 

[Occam]

You are thinking of what used to be Service Personnel Holding List (SPHL) and is not the Retention & Transition List (RTL) - This is a regular force thing.

Should that be "now" vice "not"?  It's a little confusing as it reads.

Did they rename yet another organization?

 

[McG]

It should read "now."
The rename is part of a change in role & the whole new JPSU thing.

 

[PMedMoe]

Not only did I work full time on various bases, but as well trained with my unit at night and on weekends, with no extra pay.  Full Days Pay was just that, regardless of who you were working for and the hours you put in.

Reg F personnel don't get paid extra for working nights or weekends either.  Other than that, interesting first post!

 

[armyvern]

If I remember correctly, CF members who were injured were being put into a holding pattern in ...... I thought.... the PRL.  They did not belong to any one Reserve Unit, and were administered through the CF.  There are also former Reg Force members wearing the hatbadge of their Reg Force affiliation, who also do not belong to any one Reserve Unit.  Under what "program" are they working?  I have seen this across the country, not just in Ottawa/NCR.

I know two who wear their former RegF Unit capbadges still who are employed in CTC; I'll send them an email tomorrow (although - I'm sure they had both mentionned before they were PRL & ergo the reasons they were allowed to wear their regF capbadge still). Will confirm.

But, my friend WO Ian Culbertson (now deceased) was definetely PRL. He was burried in his PPCLI cap badge - the same one he wore whilst RegF and once he retired and began working as a Class B as the 3 ASG HA until his death last fall.

 

[McG]

I know two who wear their former RegF Unit capbadges still who are employed in CTC;

There are some employed at CTC in Gagetown who are on the NDHQ PRL. That could be the case with the pers you know.  I've also known some reservists to keep wearing whatever they used to wear despite what was currently being worn by the regiment that owned them.

 

[Reserve4Life]

Reservists on class B are paid 85% of Reg salary with vacation days tacked onto the end of their Class B employment.

When discussing reservists you have to discuss the benefits that the reservists on long term contracts are entitled to...

I am not sure where these "vacation days" went but I didn't get any at the end of my contracts.  What I did get was 2 days leave for every 30 days on Class B, 22 days for a full year contract.  If that is what your referring too, it is not tacked onto the end and it isn't in the form of money.  Leave must be taken prior to end of contract.

Class A reservists get the "PILL" Pay in Lieu of Leave.

 

[kratz]

I'm not certain about the Army Reserve, but for the Navy IAW MARGEN 9-1 the unit is able to approve up to three days leave at the end of a contract. Any remaining leave must be approved by higher command. In practice, this means, use your leave or lose it unless there is an operational reason not to use it.

 

[dapaterson]

I'm not certain about the Army Reserve, but for the Navy IAW MARGEN 9-1 the unit is able to approve up to three days leave at the end of a contract. Any remaining leave must be approved by higher command. In practice, this means, use your leave or lose it unless there is an operational reason not to use it.

Leave is an entitlement - a superior can't order a subordinate to forfeit leave.  Indeed, it's the superior's fault their subordinate still has leave remaining at the end of a period of employment - why didn't they provide supervision and ensure their subordinate took their leave?  Sounds like the supervisor was negligent in the performance of a duty to me...

The new leave admin manual discusses that situation, and provides for three options for Reservists with leave remaining at the end of a period of full-time service:

(1) Extend the period of service to provide the leave (and note that this could result in more calendar days, if it goes over stat holidays or weekends);
(2) If the member is continuing on full-time service with a new employer, with that employer's permission carry the leave entitlement forward with them; or
(3) Cash out of leave IAW CBI 205.75 (I think that's the ref).

"Refuse to give them leave and tell them tough" doesn't appear to be a legal option.

 

[dapaterson]

There are some employed at CTC in Gagetown who are on the NDHQ PRL. That could be the case with the pers you know.  I've also known some reservists to keep wearing whatever they used to wear despite what was currently being worn by the regiment that owned them.

Strictly speaking: If they are employed at CTC they are probably on the LFC PRL, not the NDHQ PRL.  On the other hand, if they were working at the CFRC in Fredericton, they'd be more likely to be on the NDHQ PRL.

(And I have seen one forlorn major in NDHQ wandering around with the crossed rifles of the Inf corps badge, though of late he seems to have picked up the accoutrements of one of the highland regiments.  There was also a Cpl with a tan beret and the Inf badge)

 

[McG]

Strictly speaking: If they are employed at CTC they are probably on the LFC PRL, not the NDHQ PRL.  On the other hand, if they were working at the CFRC in Fredericton, they'd be more likely to be on the NDHQ PRL.

Is it the LFC or (as I'd always heard) Land Staff PRL?  Either way, the examples I am aware of employed in CTC are most definitely on the NDHQ PRL (even if the other would be more appropriate). 

 

[dapaterson]

Is it the LFC or (as I'd always heard) Land Staff PRL?  Either way, the examples I am aware of employed in CTC are most definitely on the NDHQ PRL (even if the other would be more appropriate).

It is the LFC PRL - UIC 1184 (although a PRL is not a unit).

 

[jbeach95]

The new leave admin manual discusses that situation, and provides for three options for Reservists with leave remaining at the end of a period of full-time service:

(1) Extend the period of service to provide the leave (and note that this could result in more calendar days, if it goes over stat holidays or weekends);
(2) If the member is continuing on full-time service with a new employer, with that employer's permission carry the leave entitlement forward with them; or
(3) Cash out of leave IAW CBI 205.75 (I think that's the ref).

"Refuse to give them leave and tell them tough" doesn't appear to be a legal option.

Does anyone know if this would apply to leave received in 2007 but not used? Specifically the cash out option?
I had a Class B contract for a course and a Class C contract for workup/tour overlap, so I lost 3 annual leave days. I asked to take the leave while on the Class C but was told no. Since getting back from tour, I've been bugging my BOR about it, but I they have not been able to give me an answer.

 

[CountDC]

As far as I recall it has been the policy since they introduced reserve leave that it had to be used, added to the end or carried over to the new contract.  Don't know about the cash out as never had that come up for reserves. 

The problem now is that if you were able to get the cash out it should have been done in 2007.

You could try a redress of grievance but even that is supposed to be submitted within 6 months of the event grieved and you are well past that.  Unless you can proof exceptional circumstances for submitting one so late they might not even consider it.

 

[mariomike]

This was posted in another discussion yesterday,

I would argue that reservists are underpaid by 15 per cent.

Saw this explanation from 2008,

Reservists generally make 15 per cent less than their regular force counterparts, said Capt. Ron Kronstein of army public affairs.

"It’s seen as a form of compensation for not being posted or told where to go every few years," Capt. Kronstein said in an e-mail.