Would Mandatory National Service make the CF stronger?

[geo]

I don't think this is true.  Most German soldiers in the Second World War were conscripts, but the ones I've talked to were all proud of their service - even despite the criminal acts the regime had committed and to which they were (supposedly) unwitting accomplices.

conscripts during wartime, when your country is threatened is a whole other kettle of fish... IMHO.  The Germans are/were masters of the propaganda and were able to motivate their volk to incredible feats; facing the hordes of heathen communists.... and they all knew what to expect from the soviets (exactly what they had been giving em)

 

[munky99999]

My opinion is not so much a one or the other on conscription. I think a good place to get recruits would be the welfare system. Reconstruct the welfare system to set it up so people who can’t find a job within X amount of time, they then get sent to boot camp in a sense of involuntary conscription. Also in the same sense, the government is already paying these people to live their life, making them go to the military could be good for all. Furthermore, these welfare people usually have their skills and information to place them well and quickly. Even if they make it just reserves it could be a pretty good place to get those people letters of references to help them in civilian life if they choose to leave after the conscription length.

I’m not sure what kind of yield this could result, but just looking at the “projects” in my neighbourhood alone they could get 40+ good people.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

conscripts during wartime, when your country is threatened is a whole other kettle of fish... IMHO. 

I would agree with that, but not in all cases; it would naturally depend on the country and circumstances. I would agree that peacetime conscripts in Canada would probably be in general of low worth - that would likely be the case in most countries, in fact.

In harsher regimes like the former Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, however, draftees have proven of considerable worth even in peacetime.

 

[TCBF]

"I’m not sure what kind of yield this could result, but just looking at the “projects” in my neighbourhood alone they could get 40+ good people."

- I doubt it.  Scraping the social and intellectual scum off of the streets of our nation is no way to build a professional peacetime cadre.

- I am against conscription in Canada because we would only screw it up unless we brought over some Germans to show us how the Bundeswehr did it - and then actually followed their advice.

- The great thing about a properly run conscript system - with no exemptions - is that it is a superb selection tool: You merely pick the best and the brightest of each intake, and give them the trades that need to be filled and that they qualify for - not necessarily the ones they want.  Very efficient.  You get a higher general intelligence level in a properly run peacetime draft than you do waiting for the semi-litterate hillbillies to rouse themselves out of a Salvation Army clothing donation metal bin on a cold winter's day and walk into the recruiting center looking for three hots and a cot.  Like I did.

After a year's service, you offer the best - and ONLY the best - a shot at RMC or a long service NCO position.  The Bundeswehr would put the little silver cords on the officer trainee's shoulder, but he would continue to do his normal job as well as begin a studyprogram in his battailion.  A year later - if he still measured up - he was sent away for training.  The NCO candidates were given a two month long section commanding course,then a thre month long Leopard 2 crew commander's course.  If they passed both, they were given a long term contract and became Stabs Unteroffizier (MCpl).  If they failed either, they were released as time expired conscripts.

Also note that a Swiss conscript - basically every adult male 18 to 40 - keeps his automatic rifle and first line ammunition at home.  Cuts down on crime as well - especially home invasions.

They also psych test EVERY ONE of their enrollees.  We do not - a fatal error which has  cost us an Airborne Regiment.

 

[Britney Spears]

Mmmm, is there ANY problem in the country that can't be solved with 4 battalions of Leopard 2s (we'll bring bach 8CH too) and an automatic rifle in every house? I think not. TCBF should run for PM on that platform, I'd vote for him.

 

[munky99999]

- I doubt it.  Scraping the social and intellectual scum off of the streets of our nation is no way to build a professional peacetime cadre.

I’d be thinking that is more of a stereotype. The people I know in the welfare system who live in the area I’m speaking of are very respectable people but simply are on hard times and can’t seem to find work. They have their resume on monster.ca and in the closest place which finds people temporary jobs, can’t think of the name of the place. So using the word scum might be a rather stereotypical word to use.

They also psych test EVERY ONE of their enrollees.  We do not - a fatal error which has  cost us an Airborne Regiment.

I also agree we should be psyche testing everyone in the military. We are training them to use weapons and tactics. Giving this knowledge to someone who is unstable or a gang member would be a very bad thing. If only it was attached to the time officers spend in RMC.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Mmmm, is there ANY problem in the country that can't be solved with 4 battalions of Leopard 2s (we'll bring bach 8CH too) and an automatic rifle in every house? I think not. TCBF should run for PM on that platform, I'd vote for him.

How would that help MRI wait times?  ???

 

[geo]

In harsher regimes like the former Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, however, draftees have proven of considerable worth even in peacetime.

Ah yes, you've used the magic word "harsher".  When the alternative to doing hard time is doing even harder time, oh yeah; motivation is pulled out - like a rabbit out of a hat.

 

[TCBF]

"I’d be thinking that is more of a stereotype. The people I know in the welfare system who live in the area I’m speaking of are very respectable people but simply are on hard times and can’t seem to find work. They have their resume on monster.ca and in the closest place which finds people temporary jobs, can’t think of the name of the place. So using the word scum might be a rather stereotypical word to use"

- You are correct - I was unfairly harsh with a vague, sweeping generalization.  However, there are lots of jobs just for the asking here in Alberta - so many that they are talking about importing 'gastarbeiten' to stock the Ft Macmurray work camps with.  Why are not these jobs being filled with the unemployed from Eastern Canada?  Why don't they walk into a Recruiting Center instaed of waiting to be drafted.

- At least, if they volunteered, they might get in after the five years or so it takes to process them.

"Mmmm, is there ANY problem in the country that can't be solved with 4 battalions of Leopard 2s (we'll bring bach 8CH too) and an automatic rifle in every house? I think not. .. "

- Four bns would be excessive.  One would suffice.  Pigs get fat - hogs get slaughtered.  Though I would take one regt of Leo2s, one of MGS, and three of AGS.

- As to the auto rifle in every house: no need.  Excessive.  A simple bolt action rifle or hunting shotgun would be fine, and only in those homes who request one. 

"TCBF should run for PM on that platform, I'd vote for him."

- We keep on voting for each other like this, we will soon be running the country.

;D

 

[munky99999]

Why don't they walk into a Recruiting Center instaed of waiting to be drafted?

I take my own situation. I had absolutely no idea WHERE the recruiting centre is. Let alone even know the existence of a recruiting centre. As for my habits basically never ever had any sort of recruiting advertising ever showing up for me. In fact the only reason I really found out about the recruiting and military websites is that I had an interesting idea of the Canadian army creating a MMORPG computer game much like America’s army. Or perhaps going in with the Americans and making a NATO-UN game. Creating a very advanced MMORPG which would be VERY popular and as MMORPG games being very profitable it could pay for itself in the long run. They could also make it into a training simulator like they are doing with America’s army. This could be expanded on with a flight simulator which could make the game a huge hit.

 

[TCBF]

Well, if you spend your entire life with your head two inches from a computer monitor, you really can't fault the CF for not 'getting' to you with their advertising, can you?

No great grandfather at Vimy  Ridge?  No grandfather at Falaise?  No father in Bosnia?

 

[GO!!!]

I’d be thinking that is more of a stereotype. The people I know in the welfare system who live in the area I’m speaking of are very respectable people but simply are on hard times and can’t seem to find work. They have their resume on monster.ca and in the closest place which finds people temporary jobs, can’t think of the name of the place. So using the word scum might be a rather stereotypical word to use.

I think SCUM is a great word to use.

At last count, there are 17 000, (yes, that is seventeen thousand) unfilled positions here (Alberta - edmonton and north). A similar number exists in the south of the province, and there is a critical shortage of manpower in EVERY SINGLE TRADE.

My parents and my wife's family both moved from eastern Canada (Ontario and Quebec) in search of better and higher paying jobs, and moved again when opportunities arose within the west.

People who are on welfare are making a choice - a choice to work in only a specific area, to live only in a specific area, and as a result, they make very little. Starting wage for just about any type of apprentice in Ft. McMurray is 22-35$/hr right now, with more overtime then you can shake a stick at, and there have been 80,000 layoffs in the tech sector in Eastern Canada in the last five years.

In my mind - the choice is clear.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

In my mind - the choice is clear.

In that memorable phrase, Sir Sam Hughes was destined to live and die without ever having had a single doubt.

It's not a contest. 

 

[GO!!!]

It's not a contest. 

You're right.

Alberta should endure a labour shortage while easterners sit on UI and welfare.

What was I thinking?

 

[big bad john]

Some may not realize it but we have a labour shortage of qualified individuals here in Ontario also.  I have been interviewing for a large defence manufacturer in Ottawa, they are having a job fair that they have been advertising on the radio because they have over 100 software, systems and hardware jobs that they can't fill.  The recruiter told me that when they contact the local colleges and universities they are told that they have empty seats in these programs.  Go figure.

 

[JackD]

where I live - Poland now - there is conscription - it does work here as there are very few jobs about... I am rather curious as to what exactly they do though, as I see very little training going on - as I live near a garrison headquarters and close to three regimental barracks..I see no jogging, no convoys heading off to some field - I have seen some picking up cigarette butts though... So does it work.. it gives some people money... does it make a good soldier.. good question... Would it work in Canada? Doubt it.. Incidentally the last comments about the unemployed are not truly called for - try getting a job in Canada when you are older.. the last one I had was shoveling snow... that after three degrees... mind you, last job I had at a university was lost as I was perceived as a "killer', having been in the army for 11 years... Up yours University of Saskatchewan! Where I live now - the bitter comment is that to work even at a lousy job you need to speak 3 languages, have 2 doctorates, at least 7 years experience and be younger than 21. If you can give me a list of those employers who are begging for workers, let me know.. I want jobs for my students...

 

[pbi]

Good points raised here, but it's really a non-starter in Canada, isn't it? Try selling the idea in Quebec. 'Nuff said.

Cheers

 

[geo]

message from "La belle province"
Don't want em, don't need em.... thanks for asking

CHIMO!

 

[Neill McKay]

You're right.

Alberta should endure a labour shortage while easterners sit on UI and welfare.

What was I thinking?

Following your free-market thinking, isn't a labour shortage simply a result of the employers not paying enough to attract enough staff?

 

[TCBF]

It could also be a result of the employers having to compete with a government that pays people to sit on their asses.