Would Mandatory National Service make the CF stronger?

[FJAG]

If you can’t find volunteers to defend said society it might deserve to be destroyed. If there isn’t a big enough carrot to offer you aren’t offering the right thing.

The down side of a free and democratic society that has evolved into one where social media posts have replaced accessing real news and where the advancement of one's self tends to lead to one where individuals are no longer prepared to put their lives on the line. They tend to believe the good times will always roll without a major effort or sacrifice on their part.

The measure of the strength of the society as a whole is whether or not it is prepared to force the issue where needed and whether or not it has leaders who will make that happen even at the risk of their political futures.

Mostly I think it's a mute point though because a soldier needs more than a 303 rifle and a tin hat to go to war these days. One needs to have equipment to man and that equipment is expensive and limiting. It is highly unlikely that Canada will produce what it did during WW2:

Canadian industry produced more than 800,000 military transport vehicles, 50,000 tanks, 40,000 field, naval, and anti-aircraft guns, and 1,700,000 small arms.

And though our population has grown form 11 million to 40 million, we won't be raising the number of people we did in WW2:

More than one million Canadians served full-time in the armed forces during the Second World War, approximately 731,000 in the army, 106,000 in the navy, and 250,000 in the air force.

In the 1960s we had a peacetime full-time military of around 125,000 when our population was around 20 million. I'm of the view that you could raise and maintain an all-volunteer army of 40,000 full-timers and another 40-50,000 reservists which would be enough to man four to five fully equipped divisions based on a 3.5% GDP military budget. Will people volunteer after hostilities start - probably, they did for Afghanistan. More importantly, if you set up your legislation and policies right so that all serving personnel are bound to a fixed term of Supp Res service after release, you will have a pool of trained manpower to draw on without the need to conscript.

Conscription for conscriptions sake I am not sure would survive. Just like how the death penalty likely couldn’t survive a court challenge thanks to the right to life liberty and security of the person. Conscription violates all of those, along with the right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment, mobility rights, freedom of association, etc.

I said it a few days ago. The Charter has limitations in section 1 - the Charter "guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." A law providing for compulsory military service required to protect society itself easily falls within that.

Further, section 33 provides "(1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15." The rights you are trying to squeeze in - and I disagree that they are applicable in any event - are all subject to a "notwithstanding" provision.

 

[Kirkhill]

Conscription in Denmark - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Conscription in Denmark (Danish: Værnepligt) is mandatory for all physically fit men and women over the age of 18, according to the Constitution of Denmark, §81 and the Danish Law of Conscription, §2. The service lasts between 4 and 12 months. Under the Danish Realm and protected by the Danish Defence, citizens from Greenland and the Faroe Islands are not required to serve as conscripts.

'Day of Defence'​

Every citizen over the age of 18 will be drafted into the 'Day of Defence' (forsvarets dag), where they will be introduced to the Danish military and have their health tested. Citizens who are not physically fit are not required to participate in the draw. Citizens considered healthy or partially capable have to participate in the draw.

Drawing​

Physically fit people and partially fit people have to draw a number. Citizens deemed partially capable draw a number but do not have to serve their conscription if they choose not to, even if it is a number where a physically fit man would have to serve. Citizens determined to be physically healthy can be forced to fulfil their conscription, depending on which number they draw. The numbers 8,000-36,000 (frinumre) will not lead to conscription in peacetime. The numbers 1–8,000 can lead to conscription — even in peacetime — if there are not enough volunteers.

Service​

Conscripts in the Danish Defence (Army, Navy and Air Force) generally serve 4 months, except:

• Conscripts of the Guard Hussar Regiment Mounted Squadron, who serve 12 months.
• Conscripts with Cyber-conscription, who serve 10 months.
• Conscripts aboard the Royal Yacht Dannebrog, who serve 9 months.
• Conscripts in the Danish Emergency Management Agency, who serve 9 months.
• Conscripts in the Royal Life Guards, who serve 8 months.
• Conscripts of the Army’s Mobilisation Troops, who serve 8 months.

Mounted Squadron - equivalent to UK Household Cavalry
Life Guards - equivalent to Brigade of Guards and Ceremonial Guard
Dannebrog - Royal Yacht

DEMA - alternate service, civil defence
Cyber - new option
Mobilisation Troops - new option

Minimum service is being bumped from 4 months to 11 months
5 months of Basic Training
6 months of Operational Service

Military and non-military duty​

According to the Danish Law of Conscription from 12 December 2003, §2, one must provide conscription for the military (the Danish Defence) or perform a non-military duty, for example in the Danish Emergency Management Agency, as an aid worker in a developing country or, if a conscientious objector (militærnægter), in the civil service. Voluntary service in the armed forces or emergency services can, according to rules set by the Minister of Defence, take the place of military service.

Number of participants​

In 2006, 76% of conscripts were volunteers, a number which rose to 99.1% in 2014. The other 0.9% (19 individuals) were forced to serve in the military.

In 2012, the number of conscripts was lowered from 5,000 participants to 4,200 participants. This is being upheld until 2020.

Since the Russo-Ukrainian war post 2022, many Danish parties have engaged in talks about increasing the number of conscripts up to 15,000 in the upcoming years. This is part of the state's plan which works to improve the Danish army’s capabilities at defence, which have suffered greatly since the end of the Cold War.

Rights​

To protect the rights of the conscripts, the Conscription Council (Danish: Værnepligtsrådet) was created in 1968. It works as an independent trade union and is focused on handling the interests of the conscripts.

 

[Kirkhill]

In Denmark everyone is liable for military service. Not everyone serves. There are enough eligible volunteers. Not everyone who serves does armed service.

Conscription is just another form of taxation. Sweat equity.

 

[FJAG]

For a man to love his society, his society ought to be lovely. If we had a constitution more like the US and actually lived by it, I'd feel Canada was more worth defending than I do now. It's becoming just another self-indulgent welfare state, which are dime-a-dozen, in which strident minorities influence which pastimes are permitted/mandatory and which are forbidden, and too many people are clamouring to essentially live off rents collected from others. There is nothing lovely about an anthill.

But Brad - There's nothing in the Canadian constitution that makes it a welfare state. The constitution is not substantially different from the US constitution on fundamental rights (except that 2nd amendment stuff). There are definite differences but nothing that mandates a welfare state.

What creates Canada's welfare state is your fellow citizens who elect government after government that put these policies in place and who then get re-elected again. It's not the strident minorities, its actually the majority. Effectively you are outnumbered by the left-leaning, socialist-loving crowd (when you aggregate Liberals, NDP and a few fringe parties) who think that public health care is more important than a large standing military or the right to own assault rifles.

Self indulgent welfare states are not a dime a dozen. You'll find those ruled by autocrats and other despots intent on lining their own pockets and those of their cronies - usually a bunch of military guys with all the guns - are much more in vogue.

The answer is quite simple. If your country's character no longer suits you, then vote with your feet.

I'm a bit like you. I think the left-leaners have gone too far and that some correction is needed, but . . . that's the down-side and the strength of a democracy. If you can convince the multitude that you have a better answer for how to bring them prosperity and freedom and can get elected, you'll have the opportunity to change things. Our charter gives every citizen that right

3. Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of the members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.