Wounded Knee - 1890 - 20 Medals of Honor

[Dennis Ruhl]

Randomly checking on some Indian Wars sites, I came upon a shocker.  Subsequent to the massacre of 300 or so unarmed Indians by the 7th Cavalry using machine guns (actually 42mm Hotchkiss guns - not fully autos) 20 Medals of Honor were awarded.  Holy Sheight!

http://www.dickshovel.com/smith.html

I never heard that one before.  That is unquestionably an absolute disgrace. 

 

[Strike]

WOW!  I think someone should start a petition to have these people return their medals!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think people ought to read more than just a blog entry before they climb their ivory towers.

 

[Bearpaw]

Investigate the battles of Bud Dajo and Bud Bagsak for similar results.

Bearpaw

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

WOW!  I think someone should start a petition to have these people return their medals!

Yes, about 1,000 were revoked but not these ones.  They nabbed Buffalo Bill Codys but re-awarded it 80 years later.

I am quite familiar with the history of the old west and cannot imagine Wounded Knee being characterized as a battle under any circumstances.  There is no unknown factor that would label it anything other than butchery and it rated almost as many Medals of Honor as Iwo Jima.

I've stood on a ridge overlooking the Little Bighorn River in Montana.  Now that was a battle and some of the 7th Cavalry survivors (a couple miles down the ridge from Custer) rightly earned the Medal of honor.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Randomly checking on some Indian Wars sites, I came upon a shocker.  Subsequent to the massacre of 300 or so unarmed Indians by the 7th Cavalry using machine guns (actually 42mm Hotchkiss guns - not fully autos) 20 Medals of Honor were awarded.  Holy Sheight!

http://www.dickshovel.com/smith.html

I never heard that one before.  That is unquestionably an absolute disgrace.

Do you know the source that identifies 20 MoH awarded? I can only identify 6 'Wounded Knee' citations here, but I have old eyes and little patience these days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients_for_the_Indian_Wars.

Not that I am justifying their actions, just reading these citations, there seems to be ample reason for the US Army to fear these people. This description of the battle is also interesting, and reminds me of some of the fear motivated killings of civilians by soldiers in Vietnam: http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/woundedknee/WKmscr.html

Regardless, IMHO, modern attempts to 'right' perceived wrongs of the distant past by applying contemporary values to history are - more often than not - ridiculous and misguided e.g., aplogizing for Columbus discovering America  :facepalm:

Looking back and saying 'Wounded Knee should never happen again' is, OTOH, an important exercise.

My 2 bits.

 

[Journeyman]

The actual event is hardly news, as anyone who's ever read/seen "Bury My Heart at Deviated Septum" or whatever that book/movie was called.  :

And as noted by daftandbarmy, this report that you're getting so worked up over isn't remotely accurate.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Do you know the source that identifies 20 MoH awarded? I can only identify 6 'Wounded Knee' citations here, but I have old eyes and little patience these days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients_for_the_Indian_Wars.

All 28 of these seem to fit the time and location.

Benjamin H. Cheever, Jr.
John E. Clancy
Mosheim Feaster
Ernest A. Garlington
John C. Gresham
Mathew H. Hamilton
Joshija B. Hartzog
Harry L. Hawthorne
Marvin C. Hillock
George Hobday
Robert Lee Howze
Bernhard Jetter
John Brown Kerr
Joseph F. Knight
George Loyd
Albert W. McMillan
Fred Myers
Adam Neder
Richard J. Nolan
Theodore Ragnar
Cornelius C. Smith
Thomas Sullivan
Frederick E. Toy
Jacob Trautman
Charles A. Varnum
James Ward
Paul H. Weinert
Hermann Ziegner

And as noted by daftandbarmy, this report that you're getting so worked up over isn't remotely accurate.

  Hardly worked up.  It is generally accurate.

 

[Danjanou]

Just looked through that list with my equally old and tired eyes, pity not one Alberta Dragoon there. 8)

I'm sure the Blogger quoted intially failed to notice the number of Indian Scouts and Buffalo Soldiers listed too.

 

[Strike]

Dennis, what's your point?  What do you propose be done about it?  If you're just going to post about a past wrong and talk about how wrong this wrong is, it does nobody any good and just eats up bandwidth.  Maybe contribute a little bit more than just posting what are perceived facts and give people a bit more "so what."

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Dennis, what's your point?  What do you propose be done about it?  If you're just going to post about a past wrong and talk about how wrong this wrong is, it does nobody any good and just eats up bandwidth.  Maybe contribute a little bit more than just posting what are perceived facts and give people a bit more "so what."

I originally posted this in the history section but it got moved.  I simply found it interesting from a historical point of view, that as many Medals of Honour were awarded for what is generally considered a massacre than were awarded for Iwo Jima which was a brutal battle.  I simply thought I would share a historical tidbit.  I am not sure that I am all that comfortable with characterizing such topics as a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Scott]

I am not sure that I am all that comfortable with characterizing such topics as a waste of bandwidth.

See, nowhere did Strike state that the topic was a waste of bandwidth. She said that the way you were posting was.

Dennis, what's your point?  What do you propose be done about it?  If you're just going to post about a past wrong and talk about how wrong this wrong is, it does nobody any good and just eats up bandwidth. Maybe contribute a little bit more than just posting what are perceived facts and give people a bit more "so what."

Seems simple to me.

Scott
Staff

 

[Strike]

I don't see how you can compare Wounded Knee to Iwo Jima.  They were two different times in history where people thought differently.  The U.S. went from a nation believing that the Indians were a scourge to be conquered to a People that proved very useful in helping to win the war (code talking and such).

 

[Blackadder1916]

All 28 of these seem to fit the time and location.

Benjamin H. Cheever, Jr.
John E. Clancy
Mosheim Feaster
Ernest A. Garlington
John C. Gresham
Mathew H. Hamilton
Joshija B. Hartzog
Harry L. Hawthorne
Marvin C. Hillock
George Hobday
Robert Lee Howze
Bernhard Jetter
John Brown Kerr
Joseph F. Knight
George Loyd
Albert W. McMillan
Fred Myers
Adam Neder
Richard J. Nolan
Theodore Ragnar
Cornelius C. Smith
Thomas Sullivan
Frederick E. Toy
Jacob Trautman
Charles A. Varnum
James Ward
Paul H. Weinert
Hermann Ziegner
  Hardly worked up.  It is generally accurate.

As "seems" to be your pattern, you make extrapolations and conclusions without "seemingly" conducting much (if any) research about a subject and then pronounce the results without reference or links (other than to a dubious blog).

I wasn't originally going to post in this thread because it is one of those topics that can only spiral into accusations of revisionism, racism, insensitivity, inaccuracy (already there), . . . . well, there's all sorts of name-calling that can ensue.

As to the military action at Wounded Knee on 29 December 1890, most will acknowledge it most definitely was not one of the US Army's finest hours.

Since you don't "seem" to have your numbers straight (20 MOHs in the opening post and 28 names in the preceeding entry), I'll do some of your research for you.  These are from the US Army Center of Military History site and are the only ones that "seem to fit the time and location".
http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/indianwars.html

AUSTIN, WILLIAM G.
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company E, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: New York, N.Y. Birth: Galveston, Tex. Date of issue: 27 June 1891. Citation: While the Indians were concealed in a ravine, assisted men on the skirmish line, directing their fire, etc., and using every effort to dislodge the enemy.

CLANCY, JOHN E.
Rank and organization: Musician, Company E, 1st U.S. Artillery. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: ------. Birth: New York, N.Y. Date of issue 23 January 1892. Citation: Twice voluntarily rescued wounded comrades under fire of the enemy.

FEASTER, MOSHEIM
Rank and organization: Private, Company E, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Schellburg, Pa. Birth: Schellburg, Pa. Date of issue: 23 June 1891. Citation: Extraordinary gallantry.

GARLINGTON, ERNEST A.
Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Athens, Ga. Born: 20 February 1853, Newberry, S.C. Date of issue: 26 September 1893. Citation: Distinguished gallantry.

GRESHAM, JOHN C.
Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Lancaster Courthouse, Va. Birth: Virginia. Date of issue: 26 March 1895. Citation: Voluntarily led a party into a ravine to dislodge Sioux Indians concealed therein. He was wounded during this action.

HAMILTON, MATHEW H.
Rank and organization: Private, Company G, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: New York, N.Y. Birth: Australia. Date of issue: 25 May 1891. Citation: Bravery in action.

HARTZOG, JOSHIJA B.
Rank and organization: Private, Company E, 1st U.S. Artillery. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Paulding County, Ohio, Date of issue: 24 March 1891. Citation: Went to the rescue of the commanding officer who had fallen severely wounded, picked him up, and carried him out of range of the hostile guns.

HAWTHORNE, HARRY L.
Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, 2d U S. Artillery. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Kentucky. Born: 1860, Minnesota. Date of issue: 1 1 October 1892. Citation: Distinguished conduct in battle with hostile Indians .

HILLOCK, MARVIN C.
Rank and organization: Private, Company B, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Lead City, S. Dak. Birth: Michigan. Date of issue: 16 April 1891. Citation: Distinguished bravery.

HOBDAY, GEORGE
Rank and organization: Private, Company A, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Pulaski County, 111. Date of issue: 23 June 1891. Citation: Conspicuous and gallant conduct in battle.

LOYD, GEORGE
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company I, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Ireland. Date of issue: 16 April 1891. Citation: Bravery, especially after having been severely wounded through the lung.

McMlLLAN, ALBERT W.
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company E, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Baltimore, Md. Birth: Baltimore, Md. Date of issue: 23 June 1891. Citation: While engaged with Indians concealed in a ravine, he assisted the men on the skirmish line, directed their fire, encouraged them by example, and used every effort to dislodge the enemy.

SULLIVAN, THOMAS
Rank and organization: Private, Company E, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Newark, N.J. Birth: Ireland. Date of issue: 17 December 1891. Citation: Conspicuous bravery in action against Indians concealed in a ravine.

TOY, FREDERICK E.
Rank and organization: First Sergeant, Company C, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at:------. Birth: Buffalo, N.Y. Date of issue: 26 May 1891. Citation: Bravery.

TRAUTMAN, JACOB
Rank and organization: First Sergeant, Company I, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Germany. Date of issue: 27 March 1891. Citation: Killed a hostile Indian at close quarters, and, although entitled to retirement from service, remained to the close of the campaign.

WARD, JAMES
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company B, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Boston, Mass. Birth: Quincy, Mass. Date of issue: 16 April 1891. Citation: Continued to flght after being severely wounded.

WElNERT, PAUL H.
Rank and organization: Corporal, Company E, 1st U.S. Artillery. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, S. Dak., 29 December 1890. Entered service at: Baltimore, Md. Birth: Germany. Date of issue: 24 March 1891. Citation: Taking the place of his commanding of ficer who had fallen severely wounded, he gallantly served his piece, after each flre advancing it to a better position.

ZIEGNER, HERMANN
Rank and organization: Private, Company E, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Wounded Knee Creek, and White Clay Creek, S. Dak 29-30 December 1890. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Germany Date of issue: 23 June 1891. Citation: Conspicuous bravery

Note my highlighting of the last in that list.  The action at Wounded Knee Creek took place on 29 Dec 1890 (the shooting part of it lasted about one hour).  The action at White Clay Creek took place the following day when a squadron of the 7th Cavalry responded to an incident at Drexel Mission (burning of the mission by Sioux) - the soldiers were ambushed and had to conduct a fighting withdrawal.  In addition to ZIEGNER, the following soldiers were cited for that action.

NOLAN, RICHARD J.
Rank and organization: Farrier, Company I, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White Clay Creek, S. Dak., 30 December 1890. Entered service at:------. Birth: Ireland. Date of issue: 1 April 1891. Citation: Bravery.

RAGNAR, THEODORE
Rank and organization: First Sergeant, Company K, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White Clay Creek, S. Dak., 30 December 1890. Entered service at:------. Birth: Sweden. Date of issue: 13 April 1891. Citation: Bravery.

VARNUM, CHARLES A.
Rank and organization: Captain, Company B, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White Clay Creek, S. Dak., 30 December 1890. Entered service at: Pensacola, Fla. Birth: Troy, N.Y. Date of issue: 22 September 1897. Citation: While executing an order to withdraw, seeing that a continuance of the movement would expose another troop of his regiment to being cut off and surrounded, he disregarded orders to retire, placed himself in front of his men, led a charge upon the advancmg Indians, regained a commanding position that had just been vacated, and thus insured a safe withdrawal of both detachments without further loss.

And then there were a couple of 7th Cavalry soldiers who were cited for actions throughout the month of December 1890.

JETTER, BERNHARD
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company K, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At Sioux campaign, December 1890. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Germany. Date of issue: 24 April 1891. Citation: Distinguished bravery.

NEDER, ADAM
Rank and organization: Private, Company A, 7th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: Sioux campaign, December 1890. Entered service at:------. Birth: Bavaria. Date of issue: 25 April 1891. Citation: Distinguished bravery.

But there was more than the 7th Cavalry (and attached elements) in the field at that time and in places other than Wounded Knee.

CHEEVER, BENJAMIN H., JR.
Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, 6th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White River, S. Dak., 1 January 1891. Entered service at: Washington, D.C. Born: 7 June 1850, Washington, D.C. Date of issue. 25 April 1891. Citation: Headed the advance across White River partly frozen, in a spirited movement to the effective assistance of Troop K, 6th U.S. Cavalry.

HOWZE, ROBERT L.
Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, Company K, 6th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White River, S. Dak., 1 January 1891. Entered service at: Overton, Rusk County, Tex. Born: 22 August 1864, Overton, Rusk County, Tex. Date of issue: 25 July 1891. Citation: Bravery in action.

KERR, JOHN B.
Rank and organization: Captain, 6th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White River, S. Dak., 1 January 1891. Entered service at: Hutchison Station, Ky. Birth: Fayette County, Ky. Date of issue: 25 April 1891. Citation: For distinguished bravery while in command of his troop in action against hostile Sioux Indians on the north bank of the White River, near the mouth of Little Grass Creek, S. Dak., where he defeated a force of 300 Brule Sioux warriors, and turned the Sioux tribe, which was endeavoring to enter the Bad Lands, back into the Pine Ridge Agency.

KNIGHT, JOSEPH F.
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Troop F, 6th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White River, S. Dak., 1 January 1891. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Danville, 111. Date of issue: 1 May 1891. Citation: Led the advance in a spirited movement to the assistance of Troop K, 6th U.S. Cavalry.

MYERS, FRED
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company K, 6th U.S. Cavalry. Place and date: At White River, S. Dak., 1 January 1891. Entered service at: Washington, D.C. Birth: Germany. Date of issue: 4 February 1891. Citation: With 5 men repelled a superior force of the enemy and held his position against their repeated efforts to recapture it.

But I am still somewhat puzzled by your purpose in starting this thread.


(edited to correct grammar errors)

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

But I am still somewhat puzzled by your purpose in starting this thread.

And I am still puzzled by your being puzzled.  Perhaps you could post a list of pre-approved motives.

There was no Sioux war.  That ended in 1876.  The Indians at Wounded Knee were at peace and on their own reservation when killed.  The subsequent Medals of Honor to the total of 28 all related directly to the Sioux getting out of Dodge to save themselves from massacre.  The whole thing had been triggered by the killing of Sitting Bull in an unwarranted aborted arrest attempt 2 weeks earlier.

 

[Blackadder1916]

And I am still puzzled by your being puzzled.  Perhaps you could post a list of pre-approved motives.

There was no Sioux war.  That ended in 1876.  The Indians at Wounded Knee were at peace and on their own reservation when killed.  The subsequent Medals of Honor to the total of 28 all related directly to the Sioux getting out of Dodge to save themselves from massacre.  The whole thing had been triggered by the killing of Sitting Bull in an unwarranted aborted arrest attempt 2 weeks earlier.

I suppose that I could be flippant and respond with "so what" to the notion that there was no "state of war" at the time and leave it at that, but then I would be falling into an all too familar pattern of some here whose posts rarely contain complete, calculated and cogent arguments.

Yes, there had been many years since an organized United States military campaign or expedition had been fielded against the Sioux Lakota Indians in South Dakota.  But what does that have to do with the awarding of medals to soldiers who had been ordered to active service in the field by competent (okay that's debatable) civilian authority.  The legality of the US government ordering troops to enter reservations, intercept Indians who had left their own reservations (such as the band involved at Wounded Knee) or to arrest, detain, relocate or engage in any other constabulary or military operation would probably be a lengthy discussion.  It’s probably been ongoing for the 120 years since, but again what does it have to do with the awarding of these medals.  If the strict legality (or morality) of a military operation was one of the criteria for award of the Medal of Honor then (if one were to view it in ‘reductio ad absurdum’) the same questioning could be made about the medals awarded for events on 25 June 1876 (which you endorsed in a previous post as being “rightly earned”).

The Medal of Honor is a “personal” decoration awarded for the actions of an “individual” not that of a group.  Granted, the actions of the 18 individuals awarded the MOH for events on 29 December 1890 could be questionable, but let’s add a little perspective to your call to revoke 28 awards of this decoration.  None here (or anywhere else for that matter) was there on that day, so no one can provide a contemporary account of the specific actions of those individuals.  Other than the all too brief citations for some of the medal awards, I haven’t seen any of the other documentation (recommendations, witness statements) that was required; it is unlikely that you’ve seen it either (such documentation may no longer exist).  Is it possible that some of those who received medals for actions at Wounded Knee Creek were recommended because they were noticed for the ferocity they displayed?  Possibly, but it is just as possible that some were recommended because of actions they took to rescue fellow soldiers (from their own friendly fire as well as attempts by the Sioux to fight back).

There was not much in the way of visible tokens of recognition from his government for the US soldier in the 19th century.  The Medal of Honor was it, the only one, no other awards for valour or meritorious service, no campaign medals – imagine a time when a British (or Canadian) soldier could have worn more ribbons and gongs than an American. It is, therefore, reasonable to assume that the criteria for and investigation of MOH recommendations may not have been as rigorous as they later became.