WW2 Pioneer Platoons

[Infantry_wannabe]

I am posting this in order to learn more about my grandfather's experiences in WW2 as a member of a pioneer platoon.

My grandfather was in the Regina Rifles, going ashore on D-day and fighting until the end of the war (except for a period of recovery from a sniper's bullet to the leg). He hardly talked about his experiences because it was obviously too painful for him. Though, I will never forget the one time he broke down in front of me, telling me about "all the bodies." He is a man that I admired very much and would like to learn more about. Now that he passed away a couple years now I am curious about finding out more about what his experiences might have been like day to day.

I think that much of my grandfather's time in the war was spent in the pioneer platoon. I know that pioneers generally dealt with mine clearing, but I have never seen any personal accounts of such a task during the war. It seems like an unsung role.

There are some areas that I am most interested in. If anyone out there can give me any new information, general or specific, I would love to hear it. Here are some areas I am particularly interested in:

1) What were the most common duties of a pioneer in a Canadian infantry battalion in WW2?
2) Does anyone out there have personal experience with the WW2 pioneer platoon of the Regina Rifles?
3) What would the role of pioneers have been on D-day?
4) What were the casualty rates of pioneer platoons in Canadian infantry battalions in Normandy?
5) How would I find out more about such information?

I have not posted my grandfather's name for privacy's sake, but if anyone feels that they or someone they know may have crossed paths, feel free to contact me. Otherwise, any general discussion on pioneers would also be of interest.

Thanks.

 

[parkie]

Sorry lad can't help with the Regina rifles,our pioneer platoon(engineers)cleared mines ,built bridges.generally anything the enemy put up to try and impede the infantry,if they could they would remove it or destroy it.Not a great job.if you can imagine trying to remove a mine while under some very heavy fire. and when I say heavy,I mean terrible,Rifles mortar,tanks artillery,They had dirty jobs like trying to remove mines off roads for our tanks,while on the other end of the road enemy tanks are firing,I won't say anything about casualties,That isn't really that important to you anyways really is it.?Whatever your grand father held inside he did it for a reason,for your sake.I have bumped  into Regina rifles overseas,I went by parkie then too.From Manitoba with the pats.If you have any other questions feel free to ask,I will answer what I can

                    parkie

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Building latrines.

No, seriously.

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/mediawiki-1.5.5/index.php?title=Pioneer_Platoon

This is my page on pioneer platoons - lots of research to be done yet; they were basically the infantry battalion commander's personal engineers, and as parkie said, did both construction and demolition work, as well as assault-engineer type stuff on occasion (which I presume was their role on D-Day - breaching obstacles, blowing emplacements, etc., though the Canadians also used armour in that role, notably DD tanks. Not sure if we used AVRE (Armoured Vehicle, Royal Engineers) on D-Day or not.

If you do find out more, please post it here as you are certainly not the only one interested.

But as noted, they also assisted with field hygiene (ie latrines) and basically any other kind of handyman stuff in addition to the blowing up of stuff.

 

[parkie]

Exactly right Michael,it actually was a very dangerous job.They had a hell of a time at the Hitler Line,They were trying to clear a road for the tanks to support us.You've got to have a pretty good constitution to try digging out a charge,with lead flying at you.it's not exactly like you can jump,duck,zig-zag or anything,your stuck with that dam charge.But your right,their main task on a beach assault was clearing a breach,they worked right with the Infantry. I like what you have going on your canadian soldier page.it's nice for us old guy's to see stuff like that,doesn't make us feel so much like fossils.
                                                      parkie

 

[Infantry_wannabe]

Parkie: Thanks for the information. You certainly paint a vivid picture of the job of pioneers in WW2. It definitely sounds like a rough job. I knew generally what they might have done but you helped to give me a better image of it. You are right too about the question about casualties. I know that they were obviously bad enough for him to not want to talk about it. That speaks volumes whatever the specifics were. I suppose those of us who weren't there just want to try to understand somehow what they went through. I guess that's why I asked the question.

And Parkie, thanks for your service. We all owe you a lot.

Michael: Between what you and Parkie have said and what I have found out elsewhere, it seems that being a pioneer was a rough job one way or another. Either they were doing extremely dangerous things or they were doing menial tasks no one wanted like digging latrines. You mention that they were involved in "field hygiene." I don't want to get into too many details on here out of sensitivity to those who might have seen such things, but I think field hygiene may have included burying of bodies. The one time I saw my grandfather break down he mentioned having to dig graves of people he knew. He didn't specifically mention it as relating to being a pioneer but it seems like a logical assumption based on what you say.

Thanks for your info. You helped to confirm what was involved. I'll post anything else that I find out.

 

[parkie]

it's not that I don't think you deserve to know or anything like that,because you most certainly do,It's was just out of respect for your grandfather,If I had looked a little closer,I would have seen that your grandpa passed away,I say farewell to a fellow soldier.When your grandpa held back,This is why, The demons from that war come in so many different forms,you have to be careful when you talk,or you'll have yourself  back in a world of pain.I want to pass on something to you,something you won't get from a book,I want you to picture your grandpa,putting many a friend,in the ground,we all lent a hand in this,because when your on the march you don't have time for fancy burials,you cover your friend and keep going,Then on the way back,you pick your friend back up out of the ground,after he's been there for sometime,and that's the kind of things your grandpa did.  We  had a mortuary detail,trained for doing this,unfortunately,the books don't say that it usually fell to the average Joe to do this,and lend a hand.
I have seen pioneer platoons go from platoon strength to two or three guy's in seconds.
Sorry, I thought your grandpa was still alive earlier.my mistake.
                                                              parkie

 

[Infantry_wannabe]

I hope I didn't bring up any bad memories for you Parkie but that was very instructive for me. It is no wonder that my grandpa said that someone was looking out for him. Thanks for all the info you have given me.

 

[parkie]

I hope it helped some,I can only pass on what the pioneers did from my experiences with ours,but I'm sure it was much the same all over,And yes they did lots of menial tasks,Digging latrine's and such,But those of us over there didn't consider it menial,You do your business along the road long enough,you sure appreciate somebody who builds you something suitable. They were handy guy's, they could throw things together from what was on hand. I guess you could look at them has a ,fighting , demolition's,Handyman.
                                                                                                  Parkie

 

[Waycool101]

Try giving Norm Cromie a shout,  he was a Pioneer in the 48th Highlanders during WW2 in Italy. He posts at Maple Leaf UP forum every now and then and is a super fellow. When I had some questions about the pioneer platoon he answered some of my questions regarding this topic.

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/

Cheers