Yet somehow i'm not surprised...

[Britney Spears]

Well, 48th might have the inclination and the patience to instruct you in the rigourous definitions of science and the scientific method, but I do not. Once again, I suggest you surf over to wikipedia or perhaps your grade 10 science text book and enlighten yourself on the topic at hand before making a fool of yourself(again).

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think the Moody Blues had it right ;D

In The Beginning

[first man]
I think; I think I am; therefore I am; I think
[establishment]
Of course you are, my bright little star,
I've miles
And miles
Of files
Pretty files of your forefathers' fruit and now to suit our great computer
You're magnetic ink.
[first man]
I'm more than that; I know I am; at least, I think I must be.
[inner man]
There you go, man, keep as cool as you can,
Face piles
Of trials
With smiles.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave
And keep on thinking free.


Your right, I'm wrong. Your wrong, I'm right

It's all speculation as to what lays on the other side, and where we came from. No proof absolutley exists for either side, it's all he said, she said. Don't try convince me of something I don't believe in, and I won't have to tell you to Fuck off and die.

 

[Britney Spears]

Well, you can lead the horse to water.......

Then again, it is kind of hard for humans to research what happend millions of years ago.

We do it all the time. I bet there are even some who devote their lives to the study of such things at the very university which you attend.

We cannot reproduce the conditions that existed all those years ago to actually see if an amoeba will evolve into a human being. blah blah

You see, even though YOU have only recently taken an interest in this matter, the rest of the world already had this debate at the end of the 19th century. Do you know any biologists? Why don't you try explaining to them how evolution is unscientific? I'm sure they would be very keen to learn of such a remarkable revelation. There is AMPLE evidence, both empirical and theoretical, to support the theory of evolution and natural selection. There's been a few books written on it in the last, oh, 150 years or so. The ENTIRE FIELD of biology is anchored upon this very phenomenon. You are a fsucking idiot if you actually think otherwise. I can't think of any polite way to put it.

Look children, NOBODY outside of a few nutjobs in certain parts of the US take Intelligent Deisgn seriously. Did those priests/ministers make some kind of new discovery to indicate that "god did it"? Ever wonder why this stuff never took off in Europe or Japan?  Hint: It ain't because of the inferior European or Japanese education system.  Even the Catholic Church doesn't want anything to do with these idiots. The only reason they are somehow gaining publicity right now, after being discredited 150 years ago, is because of the right wing nutjob goverment of the US, and the ignorance of the American public of basic scientific terminology.

There are not enough  : in the world.

 

[Sheerin]

So if neither theory is a true science...we can't really say one should be taught over the other in a science class. Personally, I'm not a big fan of intelligent design or pure evolutionary theory. I almost agree *gasps* with Michael Doorsh that ID created evolution. But I'm still on the fence really, until it effects me (I'm not an evolutionary scientist or a pastor) I don't really care. 

Actually there is science that backs up evolution, which is what makes evolution a science.  I'm going to outline some of it here.

1) There is fossil evidence.  When it comes to human evolution people always jump on us to provide the 'missing link'.  I'm sorry to say that no such specimen exist.  What we do have, however, is a nice long trail of animals that descended from the last common ancestor we had with chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes).  While we're talking about LCAs, we can also look at the bonobos (Pan paniscus) who are also related to chimps, though I honestly can't say off hand when their LCA was....
2) There is DNA evidence and more specifically, mtDNA (Mitochondrial DNA) which is DNA found only in the mitochonrdial.  Only the mothers mtDNA is passed, and becuase of this its mutation rate is much less than regular, nuclear DNA.  We can use this to track changes over many many many years.
3) We have direct observations of Natural Selection.  The classic example of this is the Peppered Moth during the Industrial revolution - this is of course an example of microevolution


Also this is a question I ask of everyone who says that "We and the world are too complex for it not t have been created by god", at what point does something become too complex.  And also by that very fact won't it mean that who,or whatever this god entity is was created by something even more powerful than it?  Then what about gods creator, who created that?

But really, the whole point is that ID is not a science and therefore has ABSOLUTELY no place in a science classroom.     

 

[Britney Spears]

So basically, they're nutjobs because you don't agree with them? Cool. I can dig it.

Obviously. Have I ever failed you?

I'm not saying ID is the right thing to teach, far from it.

Good. Then stop wasting our time.

Next Week on Really Old News: Was Marx Wrong? Communism might not actually work! Movie at 11.

 

[TCBF]

"Communism might not actually work! Movie at 11." - Britney Spears

Darn!  I've already told Liza (the clearly insane woman who married me) that I wanted the DVDs "Strategic Air Command" (Jimmy Stewart, June Allyson),"Bombers B-52" (Karl Malden and Natalie Wood) and "The Sand Pebbles" (Steve McQueen, Candy Bergen (a nubile 19 y.o.), and Gavin Macleod (pre- 'Negative waves' Morioarity in 'Kelly's Heroes, and MTM, Loveboat, etc), for my Birthday, Christmas, and our Anniversary.

I don't dare ask for the 'Communism' movie too, I better watch it at 11.

Or maybe I'll just tune in to the CBC.



Tom

 

[48Highlander]

you want evidence that we weren't created by God?

Take a look at the above image.  Close your left eye and stare at the cross with your right.  Now move your head towards the monitor untill you see the ball dissapear.

Want to know why this happens?  The way that the huamn eyeball is "wired" to the brain causes a blind spot in our vision.  Now, in a human (intelligently) designed video camera, you have a CCD which captures light, with wires running from the back of it to the proccessing/recording apparatus.  With the human eye however, all of these wires, otherwise known as optic nerves, run OVER TOP OF the surface of the eyeball.  This ofcourse means that at some point they need to pass through the tissue of the eye in order to plug in to your brain.  So they meet up all in one spot and pass through a fairly large hole in the eyeball.  This causes the blind spot that you were able to detect through the above experiment.

Now, are you seriously going to tell me that this is "Intelligent Design"?  If we were created by a "God", he must have been a total idiot, or really really drunk at the time.



And Slim, they're not nutjobs because we disagree, they're nutjubs because a) they're trying to push their beleifs on others and  b) they're trying to link creationizm with science.  both of those are wrong.

ID isn't science because it cannot be tested and it doesn't actualy explain anything.  Basicaly, ID is saying "yes, evolution does happen, but every step in evolution is guided by god's hand".  Well, wether it's true or not is irrelevant, it's not scietnificaly demonstratable, therefore it doesn't belong in science class.

 

[axeman]

"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion."
- School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #100, 1994

"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder"
- Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager

;D ;D

 

[Michael Dorosh]

you want evidence that we weren't created by God?

I believe the traditional riposte here would be that God didn't intend for everything to be perfect.

That brings one down to the question of - if we were created, what would be the purpose of our existence.  And again, everyone answers that in their own way and no one has an answer.  Your smug assertion that "human blind spot" equals "proof God doesn't exist" may convince you but will not guarantee that others are convinced.  I mean, to me, my personal belief is that human beings need challenges to overcome.  If we were suddenly endowed with the ability to provide for ourselves anything we wanted with the snap of a finger - well, what would the point be?  We'd quickly grow bored.

No wars = no soldiers.  Reckon many here would be unemployed too.  But since we could snap our fingers and have food and shelter, we wouldn't have to work anyway.

Then what?

I think the imperfections we may have are outweighed by the wonders we possess - be they creation or evolution.  Like how birds know to fly south for the winter.  Or how we can communicate - right now - by pressing plastic buttons on a tabletop thousands of km away from each other.

You're free to think you've proved something with your example, but certainly not to me you haven't.  Nor would I dream of trying to prove anything to you.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

..and on Michaels high note we shall bid "adieu" to this thread just like so many other religious topics :argument:

 

[TCBF]

"Take a look at the above image.   Close your left eye and stare at the cross with your right.   Now move your head towards the monitor untill you see the ball dissapear." - 48H.

- The ball did not dissapear, 48H.   You ned to try this yourself.

Tom






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Added by Slim on request.
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