Barracks

[Skysix]

How well maintained are our military housing units and barracks, or has the privatisation movement also led to the (reduced) available funds becoming profits and not actions?

Mold Is Consuming Fort Stewart’s Barracks as a Pattern Emerges Across the Army | Military.com

www.military.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

What does the "privatisation movement" have to do with any of this?

The failure point here is that the "owner" (government) isn't looking after its own sh!t, a function most small motel owners manage to do well enough.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

What does the "privatisation movement" have to do with any of this?

The failure point here is that the "owner" (government) isn't looking after its own sh!t, a function most small motel owners manage to do well enough.

The government is a terrible Landlord. My friend worked in a building at the South Terminal in Vancouver, in the basement (who builds a basement on a delta besides the sea?) the desks were on cinder blocks due to the constant flooding, mold everywhere. The RD knowing the ADM was allergic to mold took her for a tour of the building without telling her. The ADM reacted so badly they had to call an ambulance. Two months later they were all moved out of that building. years of complaining had done nothing, but impact one senior manager and things happen. So to fix stuff, force senior staff to live and work in the worst of them. Then things will be fixed.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The government is a terrible Landlord. My friend worked in a building at the South Terminal in Vancouver, in the basement (who builds a basement on a delta besides the sea?) the desks were on cinder blocks due to the constant flooding, mold everywhere. The RD knowing the ADM was allergic to mold took her for a tour of the building without telling her. The ADM reacted so badly they had to call an ambulance. Two months later they were all moved out of that building. years of complaining had done nothing, but impact one senior manager and things happen. So to fix stuff, force senior staff to live and work in the worst of them. Then things will be fixed.

Most of those buildings are from WW2 as well, I think.

 

[Brad Sallows]

To get the wheel fixed, you have to be willing to let it break. That was always my pessimistic advice in my last handful of years as a reservist, in response to the "we have to do more with less" demands from higher.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I have told my people to no longer sacrifice their health and safety to cover up the systemic failings of the institution. Unlimited liability does not apply to Garrison life, nor should it.

 

[Skysix]

What does the "privatisation movement" have to do with any of this?

Maintenance and management costs the feds "MM". They let a contract to do the same for something less than "MM" (call it "X") to private industry thus a savings to the federal budget. Those monies "X" supposedly being used for maintenance and management are split up into profits "Y" and the actual maintenance and management costs "Z". Fairly obviously "MM" is greater than "X", and "X"="Y"+"Z", so "MM" is significantly greater than "Y" - the actual amount now spent by private industry on maintenance and management. That difference means more poorly maintained properties, and if a hedge fund owned company or publicly traded corporation won the contract, "Z" tends to increase constantly.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What "MM" costs government when it provides its own services is not necessarily the same as what "MM" costs a private operator. A couple of implied assumptions are invalid:
1. That a private operator won't put more effort into finding lower cost suppliers, and succeed.
2. That a private operator will provide the same total compensation to employees.

Profit is what motivates people to meet the standards required by the customer. It's clear enough from the article that "government" is approximately indifferent to the problem, or at best not trying very hard.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Maintenance and management costs the feds "MM". They let a contract to do the same for something less than "MM" (call it "X") to private industry thus a savings to the federal budget. Those monies "X" supposedly being used for maintenance and management are split up into profits "Y" and the actual maintenance and management costs "Z". Fairly obviously "MM" is greater than "X", and "X"="Y"+"Z", so "MM" is significantly greater than "Y" - the actual amount now spent by private industry on maintenance and management. That difference means more poorly maintained properties, and if a hedge fund owned company or publicly traded corporation won the contract, "Z" tends to increase constantly.

What "MM" costs government when it provides its own services is not necessarily the same as what "MM" costs a private operator. A couple of implied assumptions are invalid:
1. That a private operator won't put more effort into finding lower cost suppliers, and succeed.
2. That a private operator will provide the same total compensation to employees.

Profit is what motivates people to meet the standards required by the customer. It's clear enough from the article that "government" is approximately indifferent to the problem, or at best not trying very hard.

The problem we see with our Real Property and Infrastructure is that, unlike private enterprise, the GoC does not view these two things as assets to maintain. They are assets held. It makes no difference to them what the state of the facilities or properties are; they know that eventually, they turn a buck once they are divested, not before.

We don't need to worry about storefront presence. We don't have to worry about brand image with our HQs or if our facilities are more modern than the competitor; we basically need 4 walls, moderate electrical/telecommunications Infrastructure, and a roof over our heads (leaking or not...doesn't matter).

I had to point out once that by differing the 85K needed for a Fire Suppression system and a backup generator for our Server Room, the CoC was basically putting us in a position where we could lose 7.5Mil in server/network assets. I was told "yeah... but we have the funding for those assets... not for Infrastructure projects."

Penny wise and pound foolish decisions have gotten us to where we are.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

What "MM" costs government when it provides its own services is not necessarily the same as what "MM" costs a private operator. A couple of implied assumptions are invalid:
1. That a private operator won't put more effort into finding lower cost suppliers, and succeed.
2. That a private operator will provide the same total compensation to employees.

Profit is what motivates people to meet the standards required by the customer. It's clear enough from the article that "government" is approximately indifferent to the problem, or at best not trying very hard.

I watched SNC Lavilin acting as the Landlord for a Government building downtown in the heart of the tourist area run it into the ground and cause all the tenets to move out in frustration and disgust. When your customer is subject to political whims and favouritism, then the private company can ignore the standard expectations.

 

[childs56]

To get the wheel fixed, you have to be willing to let it break. That was always my pessimistic advice in my last handful of years as a reservist, in response to the "we have to do more with less" demands from higher.

That is a good way to actually effect change. Short term loss for long term gain.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If a private company can get away with ignoring the customer's expectations, it means the customer - government - isn't doing what any (intending-to-remain-solvent) private company would do, which is "to inspect". Again, the problem is with "government". Private companies that neglect to protect their investments go under and their niches are overtaken by more attentive competitors; problem solved.

 

[Bluebulldog]

If a private company can get away with ignoring the customer's expectations, it means the customer - government - isn't doing what any (intending-to-remain-solvent) private company would do, which is "to inspect". Again, the problem is with "government". Private companies that neglect to protect their investments go under and their niches are overtaken by more attentive competitors; problem solved.

The model as intended isn't bad. And should work.

The main issue is apathy by those managing the assets. Maintenance contracts are essentially "boiler plate" with most standards and code references in them, it comes down to those individuals who either enforce them, or let things slide in the name of expediency.

Building Condition Assessments and audits need to be performed, and despite meaning tax dollars to maintain, need to be accurate. RP Ops only will allocate funds if they know they need to. ( And yes, risk management is a very real carrot / stick in the equation).

 

[Lumber]

The model as intended isn't bad. And should work.

The main issue is apathy by those managing the assets. Maintenance contracts are essentially "boiler plate" with most standards and code references in them, it comes down to those individuals who either enforce them, or let things slide in the name of expediency.

Building Condition Assessments and audits need to be performed, and despite meaning tax dollars to maintain, need to be accurate. RP Ops only will allocate funds if they know they need to. ( And yes, risk management is a very real carrot / stick in the equation).

I'm assuming you work for or closely with RP Ops?
What's your take on the near universal vehemence toward RP Ops? What truths aren't the rest of us seeing?

 

[Lumber]

The government is a terrible Landlord. My friend worked in a building at the South Terminal in Vancouver, in the basement (who builds a basement on a delta besides the sea?) the desks were on cinder blocks due to the constant flooding, mold everywhere. The RD knowing the ADM was allergic to mold took her for a tour of the building without telling her. The ADM reacted so badly they had to call an ambulance. Two months later they were all moved out of that building. years of complaining had done nothing, but impact one senior manager and things happen. So to fix stuff, force senior staff to live and work in the worst of them. Then things will be fixed.

Cabins were cold AF. Went to the EO's cabin. His cabin was warm AF. Asked him to look into why most of the cabins were cold AF.

Fast forward a bit, cabins are still cold AF. As the person in charge of cabin allocation, moved EO to a cold cabin.

Cabin heating improved shortly thereafter.

 

[Bluebulldog]

What's your take on the near universal vehemence toward RP Ops? What truths aren't the rest of us seeing?

Unfortunately RP Ops isn't really the problem. More a symptom. It's the funding model and the management of same.

But when you add in a general dislike / distrust of the accounting side, coupled with a degree of "Damn the torpedoes, get it done"....there becomes a degree of frustration on all parts.

Unfortunately as another poster alluded to, there are funding allocations for a lot of capital improvements etc, but not unlike a lot of other Government areas, they often get shuffled, or re-prioritized based on political will, or expediency.

When you have an FM provider providing maintenance and repairs based on a bulk priced contract ( lowest bidder)...and they fail to adequately staff, or resource same...the Crown is then left with a lot of additional projects for renewal etc. ( There is a certain amount of OA available for these, but it's finite). Additionally if there isn't a stringent degree of oversight on that contract, then the effects of negligence become cumulative.

 

[OldSolduer]

IMO the GoC could care less about the welfare of the ordinary soldier. As I have stated if the current GoC could I think they would severely cut funding to the CAF and let it die.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Cabins were cold AF. Went to the EO's cabin. His cabin was warm AF. Asked him to look into why most of the cabins were cold AF.

Fast forward a bit, cabins are still cold AF. As the person in charge of cabin allocation, moved EO to a cold cabin.

Cabin heating improved shortly thereafter.

It was common in all mess decks as well.

Poor ventilation and sporadic heating and cooling.

I had to buy 2 dehumidifiers per mess deck and 1 per cabin on FRE to try and combat the dank moisture that builds.

 

[Lumber]

It was common in all mess decks as well.

Poor ventilation and sporadic heating and cooling.

I had to buy 2 dehumidifiers per mess deck and 1 per cabin on FRE to try and combat the dank moisture that builds.

They bought big huge space heaters and had them blowing in the flats while alongside in Norway. It was surprising how much more heat stays on 3 deck than on 2 deck, even though both are above the waterline.