Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[WLSC]

You really need to make a sticky for the podcasts you listen too! Thank you so much for sharing!

I'm not surprised at all that all 3 were saying the same things. Very good interview.

 

[MilEME09]

Why are we only doing this now?

Canada Clamps Down on Military Research as China Concerns Grow

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government will stop funding projects affiliated with universities, institutes or labs connected to foreign military, national defense or state security entities.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Quirky]

Something something more work to be done something something.

 

[KevinB]

NATO summit defense spending pledges may exceed 2% target, Austin says

Members nations hold their next summit in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius in July.

www.defensenews.com

 

[GR66]

NATO summit defense spending pledges may exceed 2% target, Austin says

Members nations hold their next summit in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius in July.

www.defensenews.com

I had to double check to make sure the article wasn't from The Onion.

Good luck wringing any extra money from our current illustrious leader "Because they’re asking for more than we are able to give right now”

 

[YZT580]

I had to double check to make sure the article wasn't from The Onion.

Good luck wringing any extra money from our current illustrious leader "Because they’re asking for more than we are able to give right now”

he will deliver. or at least he will provide a promise to deliver or at least to study the issue

 

[KevinB]

he will deliver. or at least he will provide a promise to deliver or at least to study the issue

He probably won’t do Jack and Shit, but apparently Canada has committed to action.
He will probably blame the Minister if it goes down like a lead ballon.

 

[MJP]

How many of these are in service now? Any?

Maybe I’m cynical, but these are routine and while necessary, it comes across as similar to me announcing a purchase of new underwear if my wife asks me about our mutual fund growth over the last quarter. Necessary but…not something expected to impress people.

I had to chuckle at the part in the pic. The obsession with anything HQ lives on!!

View attachment 76409

The HQSS is big bulky and seems more suited to running a static camp (IMHO) but CA units have it in their hands. The depots are certainly full of spares.

No clue how well they are being recieved by the field force though.

 

[dapaterson]

Canada's Army: fighting yesterday's wars, tomorrow.

 

[JLB50]

Canada's Army: fighting yesterday's wars, tomorrow.

That should be an advertising slogan.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Debt to GDP ratio we are similar to Greece - in fact we are higher than Greece.

What is NOT being talked about right now is the amount of federal income tax revenue that went last year, pre substantial interest rate hikes, compared to what will have to go this year, next year and the next few going forwards, to cover just the interest on the debt. Much like all the chatter about the average CDN needing to cut back on expenditures in order to deal with large mortgage payment increases, our Federal Government will be in the EXACT same situation going forwards. Which in turn means, either large cuts to services/programmes will occur, a substantial income tax increase is coming to the 60% of Canadians who actually pay income taxes.

Roughly 7.10$ out of every 100$ in income tax goes to servicing the interest on the debt today. Its safe to say that this number will be north of 8$ per 100 in 2023 and more than likely higher yet in 2024.

Further information of what we can expect here in the next 10yrs - alot of services will be cut or expect to be paying alot more in taxes (and as a result your standard of living falling accordingly) or a combination both - less services and a lower standard of living.

Here’s where 20 cents of every one of your tax dollars will go in 10 years​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/16/politics/national-debt-tax-interest-what-matters/index.html

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Canada's Army: fighting yesterday's wars, tomorrow.

Canada's army ill equipped to fight yesterday's wars or tomorrow's

 

[Brad Sallows]

alot of services will be cut or expect to be paying alot more in taxes (and as a result your standard of living falling accordingly)

Don't leave out the third option: more borrowing.

[Add: unlikely we'll get close to that prospective US benchmark of $0.20 of every tax dollar. The past few years Canada has either had an operating deficit or a surplus less than the cost of servicing debt, which means all or some of the debt cost is funded by borrowing, not tax dollars. I'll hazard a guess the US situation is the same - the cost of debt is covered by more borrowing, not tax dollars.]

 

[WestIsle]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/19/canada-military-trudeau-leaked-documents/

 

[GR66]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/19/canada-military-trudeau-leaked-documents/

Concerning but not surprising unfortunately. Also quite interesting as this article from the Atlantic Council posted on the Real Clear Defense website suggests that there could be a push by some countries at the July NATO Summit in Vilnius to RAISE the NATO spending target to 2.5% of GDP.

Acquiring the capabilities necessary for success in high-intensity warfare will require sustained higher levels of spending than NATO nations have undertaken since the end of the Cold War. To accomplish that objective, three initiatives should be agreed upon at the Vilnius summit.

First, NATO should agree that nations should spend at least 2.5 percent of GDP on defense instead of the 2-percent goal previously agreed. The United Kingdom has established such an aspiration, and Estonia has recommended such a requirement for all allies.74 While only the United States, Poland, and Greece currently meet the 2.5-percent target, a number of nations— including France, Germany, and the United Kingdom, which have larger militaries—have increased, or set plans to increase, budgets.75 It will be important for those additional budgetary amounts to be utilized to meet the requirements necessary to achieve the objectives of the New NATO Force Model.

 

[daftandbarmy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/19/canada-military-trudeau-leaked-documents/

Meanwhile, at the Prime Minister's Office

 

[Furniture]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/19/canada-military-trudeau-leaked-documents/

Is anyone surprised?

Let's be completely honest with ourselves, people like Trudeau* look down on the military as a service, as well as people that tend to make up the membership of the military. Though they are smart enough to not say it out loud, they view us as the people too dumb to do anything else. Why waste money on defence when it can be spent enhancing the arts, or solving world hunger?

*I don't mean LPC, I mean the entire "upper" crust of Canada regardless of which colour they vote. It's not limited to just the Laurentians, or Bay St, it's the wealthy and university educated from coast to coast.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Is anyone surprised?

Let's be completely honest with ourselves, people like Trudeau* look down on the military as a service, as well as people that tend to make up the membership of the military. Though they are smart enough to not say it out loud, they view us as the people too dumb to do anything else. Why waste money on defence when it can be spent enhancing the arts, or solving world hunger?

*I don't mean LPC, I mean the entire "upper" crust of Canada regardless of which colour they vote. It's not limited to just the Laurentians, or Bay St, it's the wealthy and university educated from coast to coast.

Well....

I've never found an anti-CAF civilian amongst the 'elite' out this way. OTOH, they are very interested and grateful for our military members, based on what I've seen so far.

I've even bumped into a few bejillionaires with family members in the CAF, like JTF 2, RCAF, RCN and th'Army. Some even send their kids back to their countries of origin to do their national military service, like they did themselves, as a condition of citizenship/ the right to vote.

Now, does the CAF actually ever network with these people to build on this obvious strength of feeling?

No, not at all based on what I've seen. And every effort that I made, whilst serving, to try and do that has fallen upon deaf ears largely because IMHO: 'Stinkin' Civvies, what do they know?' type attitudes.

I mean, it's always easier to invite senior military folks like yourself to cocktail parties and dinners in an echo chamber fashion as it's less ego-threatening, and it might even be good for your (marginal) CAF career

 

[Furniture]

Well....

I've never found an anti-CAF civilian amongst the 'elite' out this way. OTOH, they are very interested and grateful for our military members, based on what I've seen so far.

I've even bumped into a few bejillionaires with family members in the CAF, like JTF 2, RCAF, RCN and th'Army. Some even send their kids back to their countries of origin to do their national military service, like they did themselves, as a condition of citizenship/ the right to vote.

Now, does the CAF actually ever network with these people to build on this obvious strength of feeling?

No, not at all based on what I've seen. And every effort that I made, whilst serving, to try and do that has fallen upon deaf ears largely because IMHO: 'Stinkin' Civvies, what do they know?' type attitudes.

I mean, it's always easier to invite senior military folks like yourself to cocktail parties and dinners in an echo chamber fashion as it's less ego-threatening, and it might even be good for your (marginal) CAF career

I have zero doubt that there are lots of individuals that you've met who feel that way, but I also have some life experience and have encountered exactly what I described. Lots of people are very polite and make the right mouth noises... If wealthy people's kids serving in the CAF was normal, you wouldn't need to point out that you know of a few examples. We'd all know a few, because they'd be everywhere.

If the people of influence in Canada cared about the CAF, the CAF wouldn't be chronically underfunded and under supported. As ERC has pointed out many times, support for the CAF is a mile wide, and an inch deep.

I'm not sure where the personal attack comes from, but I've always been a proponent of more CAF engagement with Canadians. We should be more active in communities outside just the ones local to the bases.

I'll bow out now, as clearly those of us who are merely "marginal" should be neither seen nor heard.

 

[JLB50]

Is anyone surprised?

Let's be completely honest with ourselves, people like Trudeau* look down on the military as a service, as well as people that tend to make up the membership of the military. Though they are smart enough to not say it out loud, they view us as the people too dumb to do anything else. Why waste money on defence when it can be spent enhancing the arts, or solving world hunger?

*I don't mean LPC, I mean the entire "upper" crust of Canada regardless of which colour they vote. It's not limited to just the Laurentians, or Bay St, it's the wealthy and university educated from coast to coast.

I’m not surprised at all that Trudeau never planned to increase spending levels. What does surprise me is that he has admitted it rather than his usual “kicking the can down the road“ routine. Mind you, NATO knows he’s a bum. The problem is, the people of Canada are still too kind in their assessments of him and what his government has done…or should I say, hasn’t done. Now that he’s shown his true colours, I hope the electorate finally votes him and his like-minded cronies out of office forever. While I don’t want to see the LPC destroyed I do think they need to be severely trounced, much like Kathleen Wynne’s liberals was on the receiving end of the voters’ anger.