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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

Galati has never met a windmill he didn't try to take on, usually with somebody else's money. it would interesting to know if he has even had a successful Constitutional challenge, Covid-related or otherwise.
 
Gee.....hope Canada don't have a real crisis someday.

Amazing how weak some folks think the human race is......our kids are fine, our society is fine, hopefully the lessons learned are some we'll never need, because it'll be another hundred years down the road, and those of us bickering here are all dead anyways.
Do you seriously believe that? Or are you trying to be humorously hyperbolic again?
 
Research is accumulating that either kids are not fine, or that we've just recently gained an ability to accurately measure more emotional and mental distress than before.
 
Research is accumulating that either kids are not fine, or that we've just recently gained an ability to accurately measure more emotional and mental distress than before.

Our kids are educationally and socially stunted by two years. Remote learning was no where near effective as they said and kids require social interaction, both peer and otherwise, to develop properly. Facial expression is a huge part of that learning. Masks, effectively, killed that interaction and needed learning. Add in socialist CRT and LBGQALPHABET sex education in kids under ten, that took hold during and after the pandemic. We won't know the damage for years and it will be beyond fixing at that point.
 
Plenty of data shows increase in depression in some and decrease in others. For some certain stressors associated with school like peer rejection and bullying dropped. But that anxiety also increased as well due to missing out on 5heir main social setting: school.

While school socialisation decreased family resilience increased.

I fully expect to see the same old tired arguments from both sides who choose to ignore the entirety of the issue and focus on the things that support their view of the matter.

This thread is no exception.
 

Which killed more? Covid? Or the Lockdowns?

Almost exactly three years ago, Chris Whitty (Chief Medical Officer for England - Theresa Tam's position) explained the trouble with lockdowns. Pandemics, he would say, kill people in two ways: directly – and indirectly, via panic and disruption. It’s hard to measure the latter but you can count the total number of deaths, from all causes. Such figures are coming in now. The country with the smallest rise isn’t Australia or New Zealand, who closed their borders. Nor is it Italy or Canada, who had some of the toughest lockdowns. The winner, with the smallest rise in “excess” deaths since the pandemic began, is Sweden.

For those who had accused the lockdown-rejecting Swedes of pursuing a “let it rip” policy that left people to die, this is all rather baffling. And it raises some interesting questions. Australia had hardly any Covid: just lockdowns. So how did it end up with “excess deaths” – at 7 per cent – more than twice the level of the Swedes? If choosing lockdown was to “choose life” (as Matt Hancock put it) then where, in the world’s data, is the correlation between lockdown severity and lives saved?

The Lockdown Files give three main insights into what went wrong. First, we have firm examples of “the science” being invoked to impose various measures that turn out to be politically motivated. Then we see the slapdash method in which major decisions were made: how WhatsApp replaces normal government. And finally, the tone. How after taking emergency powers, this group of men go from being thoughtful and open-minded to being flippant and gung-ho. Once again, we see how power corrupts – and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
To heck with it..

Here's the entire article

Britain may well repeat its lockdown blunders sooner than anyone thinks​

From Sweden and the WhatsApp leaks, it’s clear what needs to be changed. But will anyone do it?
FRASER NELSON9 March 2023 • 9:00pm
Fraser Nelson



A true lockdown hero: Sweden’s Anders Tegnell CREDIT: Magnus Andersson/Shutterstock
Almost exactly three years ago, Chris Whitty explained the trouble with lockdowns. Pandemics, he would say, kill people in two ways: directly – and indirectly, via panic and disruption. It’s hard to measure the latter but you can count the total number of deaths, from all causes. Such figures are coming in now. The country with the smallest rise isn’t Australia or New Zealand, who closed their borders. Nor is it Italy or Canada, who had some of the toughest lockdowns. The winner, with the smallest rise in “excess” deaths since the pandemic began, is Sweden.
For those who had accused the lockdown-rejecting Swedes of pursuing a “let it rip” policy that left people to die, this is all rather baffling. And it raises some interesting questions. Australia had hardly any Covid: just lockdowns. So how did it end up with “excess deaths” – at 7 per cent – more than twice the level of the Swedes? If choosing lockdown was to “choose life” (as Matt Hancock put it) then where, in the world’s data, is the correlation between lockdown severity and lives saved?
It may suit the Government to delay the Covid inquiry reckoning until after the general election, but the conversation needs to be had now. There is more than enough evidence to update the pandemic plan, given that a new pathogen could emerge at any moment. And a harder, perhaps even more important question: how to restore trust in public health? What rules need to be in place to ensure that, next time, data is not misrepresented and science is not abused by politicians?
The Lockdown Files give three main insights into what went wrong. First, we have firm examples of “the science” being invoked to impose various measures that turn out to be politically motivated. Then we see the slapdash method in which major decisions were made: how WhatsApp replaces normal government. And finally, the tone. How after taking emergency powers, this group of men go from being thoughtful and open-minded to being flippant and gung-ho. Once again, we see how power corrupts – and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
There is one fascinating exchange where Ben Wallace, who as Defence Secretary has seen his share of emergencies, is roped into one of the WhatsApp decision-making groups. He seems appalled and explains that, if they don’t mind, he will leave them to it and keep operating through normal government methods. If others had reacted the same way, things could have been very different.
By showing us the psychology of a group in a crisis, the Lockdown Files explain why previous pandemic planning failed: it didn’t factor in human nature. The public panic was so deep that there was huge pressure to impose restrictions, whether they worked or not. This created a gravitational pull that sucked in the government, opposition and much of the media – crushing the normal safeguards (cost-benefit analyses, etc). No one wanted to go against it. Even academics found a huge pressure to be quiet if they had doubts. Oxford’s Carl Heneghan calls this the “silence of science”.
Sweden had the unflappable Anders Tegnell as chief epidemiologist, who went all-out to argue against what he saw as populism: lockdowns that were not backed by science and could cause more harm than good. He never stopped arguing, giving television interviews while waiting on train platforms and publishing study after study. He won people over. Sweden ended up with middling Covid but among Europe’s least economic damage and lowest increase in deaths. In an interview last week, Tegnell offered advice for his successor: “Have ice in your stomach.”
Must our next pandemic response be so dependent on personality? Must the fate of nations depend on musical chairs – whether the seat is held by a 63-year-old epidemiologist like Tegnell (whose CV included hands-on experience with Ebola) or a couple of WhatsApping 41-year-olds like Matt Hancock and Simon Case? Safeguards can – and should – be put in place now. There is no need to wait for an inquiry.
The Prime Minister can, at any time, order that from now on modelling needs to follow Treasury standards of transparency and robustness, stating main assumptions and uncertainties. Likely trade-offs (long and short-term) must be clearly acknowledged for every public health response. Complexity must be recognised. Critics should be welcomed, not hounded. Sage, whose very name is now synonymous with spin and bungling, should be disbanded.
It could all be needed sooner than we think. Some 130 million birds now are understood to have died from the latest variant of bird flu, which has already jumped to mammals with a human fatality in Cambodia. We can imagine what could very well happen next: Public Health England starts to do some “scenario” planning for it becoming a human pandemic, with a bias towards the worst case. Sage is exhumed. Professor Neil Ferguson comes up with some doom graphs. The whole merry-go-round could easily start again.
But will politicians be taken seriously next time they say “trust the science”? Polls in the US show that trust in public health bodies has taken a major hit since Covid. While no similar studies have been done here, we do see worrying signs in falling rates of childhood vaccination. Overstating the scientific case during Covid – where the science was genuinely mixed – risks reducing confidence in other areas where the science really is clear.
And the brutal truth? The science on Covid still isn’t clear. On masks, on social distancing, even school closures – it’s hard to say what difference they make to the spread of a virus. The UK hasn’t commissioned a single high-quality study into what works and what doesn’t. Even the excess deaths count is complicated – but Sweden is at or near the bottom, whichever way you cut it. But even now, no one seems very interested in the actual science, or learning lessons any time soon.
It’s now 20 years since the boring old coronavirus mutated into a killer in the Sars epidemic. Asian countries updated their pandemic emergency plans – but Britain didn’t, sticking with its flu-based approach. Are we seeing the same complacency yet again? We have now seen, in the Lockdown Files, much of what went wrong. We have also seen, in Sweden, what can go right. We will now see whether Rishi Sunak can put the two together.
 
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Maritimers are proud, NS in particular of all of the rights they surrendered or cheered at being trampled, "to follow the science". I have a chronological list of news reports showing the decline of rights and then reversals as governments changed or arrived challenges before the courts.

During the height of COVID lockdowns, the amount of messaging was unavoidable, through MSM and the internet. I would suggest reaching propaganda levels , to influence public support.

20 to 30 years from now, when all of the key decision makers are free and clear, we may learn the full scope of how badly the system was abused.

Demonize, denounce, and control. These actions were present in most government actions throughout COVID. The cats out of the bag and we will continue to see versions of this for years to come.
 
Maritimers are proud, NS in particular of all of the rights they surrendered or cheered at being trampled, "to follow the science".

I feel like they are a gullible bunch, they believe everything the gov and the tv box tells them. "follow the science", but only if the science aligns with your views.
 
Get the subscription. For the Lockdown Files alone it is worth it.



BLUF - we can only rely on the behaviour of everyone to get us through

How ministers were warned lockdowns could be worse than Covid itself​

Leaked WhatsApp messages reveal how leaders grappled with the impact of national shutdowns while trying to contain virus

ByThe Lockdown Files Team10 March 2023 • 8:15pm

In April 2020, a month into the first lockdown, Matt Hancock, the then health secretary, was already coming under pressure over cancelled NHS operations and became personally involved in an individual case described as “tragic”.

It involved a 17-year-old girl who had had part of her skull removed in January 2020 following a brain haemorrhage and needed surgery to reconstruct her skull after developing life-threatening complications.

The case was garnering national media attention and Steve Baker, the girl’s local MP, asked Mr Hancock to step in.

Mr Hancock forwarded Mr Baker’s message to a colleague – also called Steve – and urged them to “get right on this”.

Matt Hancock Health Secretary

Hi Matt.

I’ve raised this with Allan but need a resolution ASAP.

I have a sad case of a family with a child who has a brain tumour, and they'd planned a holiday to Centre Parcs near Dorset for his birthday - his prognosis is only a year/two.

Can we get them an exemption for travel/overnight stay?

The stay is for 4 nights from the 14th-18th.

J

16:05

Allan Nixon Department of Health Parliamentary Special Adviser

Yeah I went back to him days ago. Maybe he didn’t like my answer: I couldn’t find a legal loophole for him, but suggested he speak to Home Office spads to see if they can get the local PCC to say they won’t prosecute or such like

16:10


Matt Hancock

Are you sure we can’t offer them a compassionate exemption?

16:50



I could write a letter

16:50


Allan Nixon

Can do if you’re up for it, but surely that doesn’t change the law? Hence why I suggested the PCC “no enforcement” approach

16:52


Matt Hancock

Is there a reasonable excuse exemption?


Short form - "Now that we have rushed through a law the law is the law and must be followed - or what else is the law for?"

"And if we can't rely on the law and our own actions then we will be forced to rely on the actions of the multitude - and that would be unthinkable."

Simon Case Cabinet Secretary

I think we have to be brutally honest with people. Full lockdowns optimise our society/economy for tackling the Covid R rate - but they are terrible for other outcomes (non-Covid health, jobs, education, social cohesion, mental health etc). That’s why, even if we have to do something tougher now in the short-term, the only way we get through this in the long-term is through a balanced approach, which needs everyone to play their part in keeping people safe (hands, face, space, isolate etc). Mass testing or a vaccine might significantly alter the calculus in our favour, but if they don’t work/we fail to deliver them properly, we can only rely on the behaviour of everyone to get us through. Even with mass testing, we can build the most amazing distribution system on earth, but if people don’t isolate or take other precautions if they get a positive test, it is all for nought.
 
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Saw this in a CAF COVID thread,

No one even thinks about this in my daily life.

My former employer ended mandatory COVID-19 vaccination on 1 Dec., 2022.

But, they require those who remain unvaccinated for COVID - or Influenza - "to wear full PPE on all respiratory illness calls."

Those who were fired on 5 Jan., 2022 for non-compliance with the vaccination mandate were offered their jobs back this year.
 
I feel like they are a gullible bunch, they believe everything the gov and the tv box tells them. "follow the science", but only if the science aligns with your views.
Because the Liberal governments in Ottawa continue to bribe them
 
Saw this in a CAF COVID thread,

My former employer ended mandatory COVID-19 vaccination on 1 Dec., 2022.

But, they require those who remain unvaccinated for COVID - or Influenza - "to wear full PPE on all respiratory illness calls."

Those who were fired on 5 Jan., 2022 for non-compliance with the vaccination mandate were offered their jobs back this year.
Probably should have stayed there as it definitely didn't need to be posted twice.
 
Probably should have stayed there as it definitely didn't need to be posted twice.

Deleted from All Things - CAF - and Covid/ Covid Vaccine, - before - putting it here, where it belongs. :salute:

Anyway, "freedom" is awesome.

Especially for the partner who is vaccinated, and therefore not required to wear gloves, gown, apron, surgical face mask, protective eyewear and face shield on all respiratory illness calls. :)
 
Saw this in a CAF COVID thread.

Public heath stats on mortality and excess mortality would disagree with you.

Politics aside,

COVID-19 Pandemic Dramatically Increased Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest Cases and Deaths in New York City​




Montefiore Health System
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Fire Department of the City of New York
 
Saw this in a CAF COVID thread.



Politics aside,

COVID-19 Pandemic Dramatically Increased Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest Cases and Deaths in New York City​





Montefiore Health System
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Fire Department of the City of New York

Interesting that there are two camps:

1. The respiratory virus, C19, caused increased cases of cardiac arrest; or
2. MRNA jabs caused increased cases of cardiac arrest.

Which one is catastrophic to governments, mandates, pharma companies?
 
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