Hamas invaded Israel 2023 Megathread

[McG]

You contend that Israel has deliberately funded and propped up Hamas so as to keep the Gaza Atrip governed by extremists?

There are a few papers with articles on this theme: How Benjamin Netanyahu empowered Hamas ... and broke Israel

They don’t blame Israel. Rather, they accuse Netanyahu of enabling Hamas for his own political ends.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I was just reading how Israel funded Hamas. Why? Because they don’t want to negotiate for Palestinian independence. Israel is 100% responsible for the condition of the Palestinians.

Its actually pretty disgusting when your paying/supporting your enemy because you don’t want to have moderates to negotiate with.

It also makes them directly responsible for the attack that was just made on their people. Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.

How about you back up those comments with a few non-connected sources so that the rest of us can verify those statements ourselves?

 

[lenaitch]

If protestors can shut down traffic downtown, and came close to shutting down the Gardiner, I don't think it too far-fetched for police planners to consider the possibility protesters could try to blockade car and bus traffic attempting to move in and out of Pearson.

For clarification, I don't mean attacking anyone , or anything. I meant blocking traffic.

Downtown, Gardiner, Pearson, subway, etc...

Or, the subway, as happened in NYC.

Protesters flood subway station, jump on tracks to call for justice for Jordan Neely; multiple arrests made

Over 100 protesters swarmed the Lexington Avenue-63rd Street station, at one point even jumping onto the tracks.

www.cbsnews.com

Pearson is - very - well served by GTA transit. So, no problem getting bodies there. Combine that with a slow moving rolling blockade of vehicles, with a few "accidental" vehicle breakdowns at choke points....

No doubt planners have run their scenarios. I was making a funny; protestors don't have to do anything to grind Pearson traffic to a halt - it's like that every day.

Keep in mind that the only non-road transit to Pearson is the UP Express.

 

[Eaglelord17]

How about you back up those comments with a few non-connected sources so that the rest of us can verify those statements ourselves?

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7010035

Type in ‘Israel funds Hamas’ on google for more results if you wish.

Sorry, just to make sure we’re clear: You contend that Israel has deliberately funded and propped up Hamas so as to keep the Gaza Atrip governed by extremists? You further contend that the several systematic massacres of Israeli civilians by Hamas terrorists on 10/7 is Israel’s fault? The blame for those atrocities does not lie with Hamas?

Very important that I make sure I correctly understand your position here.

My position is that Israel (or at least Netanyahu) has been propping up Hamas for several decades. He doesn’t want a non-extremist government there as that would provide a alternative option to the hardline one he peddles.

The blame for those massacres lies directly with Hamas, but there is indirect partners who can claim some responsibility for them being in a position to even commit such acts. One of them is Israel (or Netanyahu) for propping up Hamas in the first place.

 

[mariomike]

Keep in mind that the only non-road transit to Pearson is the UP Express.

Understood. It's the only way I go there.

My only point was if any group of the size we have been seeing lately, ever wanted to blockade the place, it is very well served by TTC, GTA Regional and GO Transit to deliver protesters there.

Toronto Pearson International Airport - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In addition to UP Express.

Plus, it would be very vulnerable to a rolling vehicle blockade, because, as mentioned, traffic is already pretty heavy in that area. 409, 401, 427, Airport Rd..

Those are four strategic blockade locations I can think of that are particularly vulnerable to blockade aka "peaceful protest": Pearson, Gardiner, subway, and adding to the downtown traffic mayhem.

 

[Good2Golf]

Keep in mind that the only non-road transit to Pearson is the UP Express.

…well…other than…

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I was just reading how Israel funded Hamas. Why? Because they don’t want to negotiate for Palestinian independence. Israel is 100% responsible for the condition of the Palestinians.

Its actually pretty disgusting when your paying/supporting your enemy because you don’t want to have moderates to negotiate with.

It also makes them directly responsible for the attack that was just made on their people. Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.

Just wondering. Is this a statement of your personal opinion? Just interested, but not enough to debate it.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some recent Canadian polling shows survey respondents are effectively split on supporting Israel ....

What Canadians think about the Israel-Hamas war

Pallas Data poll reveals divisions over how the country should respond.

www.politico.com

More details from the polling firm also attached.

One blogger's take on this (may be firewalled) .....

 

[Quirky]

Some recent Canadian polling shows survey respondents are effectively split on supporting Israel

Canadian opinions on international matters are irrelevant.

 

[Good2Golf]

Canadian opinions on international matters are irrelevant.

Especially when they have yet to see some of the footage of Hamas’ carnage…

 

[dimsum]

Canadian opinions on international matters are irrelevant.

They are very relevant to Canadian politicians, and those politicians control what the CAF (and GAC and other Canadian organizations) do about the situation.

On another note, I’m not sure the US, France, Thailand, etc would agree.

Hamas sees all its hostages as Israelis, official tells Russian state media

Hamas officials visiting Moscow were quoted by Russian media on Friday as saying the militant group viewed all its hostages as Israelis, whatever additional passports they held, and could not release any of them until Israel agreed to a ceasefire.

www.reuters.com

 

[Furniture]

Canadian opinions on international matters are irrelevant.

It matters at home, if/when protests get violent.

 

[Kirkhill]

Especially when they have yet to see some of the footage of Hamas’ carnage…

Some folks are fans of ISIS videos.

That Line article referenced upthread raises some relevant points.

 

[Kirkhill]

Some recent Canadian polling shows survey respondents are effectively split on supporting Israel ....

What Canadians think about the Israel-Hamas war

Pallas Data poll reveals divisions over how the country should respond.

www.politico.com

View attachment 80974
More details from the polling firm also attached.

One blogger's take on this (may be firewalled) .....
View attachment 80976

Strongly Agree - 19%
Strongly Disagree - 30%

There is the fault line.

Some of the demographic information quoted recently suggests that there are now twice as many Muslims in Canada as Jews and the Muslims continue to arrive while the Jews are following Canadian birth patterns.

 

[gryphonv]

Strongly Agree - 19%
Strongly Disagree - 30%

There is the fault line.

Some of the demographic information quoted recently suggests that there are now twice as many Muslims in Canada as Jews and the Muslims continue to arrive while the Jews are following Canadian birth patterns.

If you break it down to the agree/ disagree columns. It is 38 vs 41%. Rest are either unsure / no opinion.

So people who do care, are roughly split 50/50.

It just goes to show how polls can be interpreted many ways.

I am not shocked by the pro Palestine protests, I am shocked by some of the participants. People who lifestyle completely clashes with Palestinians/hardline Muslim

 

[The Bread Guy]

Strongly Agree - 19%
Strongly Disagree - 30%

There is the fault line ...

You seem to have a lot more faith than I do in the fact that the 19% somewhat agree & 11% somewhat disagree aren't worth considering very much. To me, 38 vs 41 with a margin of error of 2.5 is pretty much right down the middle, with all that implies for political decision makers.

That Line article referenced upthread raises some relevant points.

They do raise some good points, indeed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I am not shocked by the pro Palestine protests, I am shocked by some of the participants. People who lifestyle completely clashes with Palestinians/hardline Muslim

Its really some impressive mental gymnastics.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... On another note, I’m not sure the US, France, Thailand, etc would agree ...

See also Australia ...

Six former prime ministers warn against letting the Israel-Gaza conflict divide Australians

John Howard, Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull and Scott Morrison have signed a statement

theconversation.com

 

[Remius]

I am not shocked by the pro Palestine protests, I am shocked by some of the participants. People who lifestyle completely clashes with Palestinians/hardline Muslim

Don’t be. Once you understand the mental black and white concepts of the world according to those participants you won’t be shocked.

They see the world as oppressed vs oppressor. Everything else is not important or relevant to them. The irony being that « queers » in Palestine regularly seek asylum in Israel to avoid persecution that includes death.

These same people fight for gay/trans rights, abortion rights etc but have no issues calling for the elimination of a country that actually is tolerant to those things in favour of one that would seek the elimination of « queers » and anyone supporting them.

 

[Kirkhill]

You seem to have a lot more faith than I do in the fact that the 19% somewhat agree & 11% somewhat disagree aren't worth considering very much. To me, 38 vs 41 with a margin of error of 2.5 is pretty much right down the middle, with all that implies for political decision makers.

They do raise some good points, indeed.

I don't think the folks in the middle are the ones likely to be rioting in the streets, organizing demonstrations and counter-demonstrations. In my view the "Stronglies" are the ones most likely to cause a breakdown in public order.

They are also the ones most likely to influence the political debate. Unfortunately.

On the other hand the bodies in the middle are the targets of the "Stronglies" and the ones that ultimately will decide both Canada's direction and the causes it supports.