Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Fabius]

Agreed.

I can't get a piece of equipment for my ship right now because the LCMM has no money to buy it and put in th system, it's a centrally managed centrally procured item, so he tells me to go buy it.

This is happening so often now I have to ask why we have LCMMs and SMs if it's going to be up to units to outfit themselves anyways.

It’s interesting that the government is looking mostly at large signature capital projects for spending additional money, while simultaneously underfunding most existing minor projects and O&M.

On the army side we are continuing to pursue the upgrading of the II in 1500 PVS 14s because the formal large night fighting capability project is underfunded and cannot deliver any time soon.

Domestic Arctic Mobility Enhancement is a fixed sum that is now insufficient to procure the number of BV206 replacements needed and is not expected to deliver any time soon, however we may need to cancel some Arctic trading due to safety concerns unless we stopgap procure a few vehicles until DAME finally delivers something.

The army still has no ATGM for the army at large nor the GRTF despite the Latvia UOR.


The list goes on across all the services on items that we need. All are relatively small and not billions individually but together…

Cheap, Good, Fast. We are stuck on cheap when we need good and fast. As fast as we can do it in cooperation with industry and allies.

 

[MilEME09]

Cut it all.

Depends where it's going, money for Ukraine is foreign aid. Below is 22-23 aid

 

[Halifax Tar]

Depends where it's going, money for Ukraine is foreign aid. Below is 22-23 aid
View attachment 86471

I understand the UKR situation is a lighting rod. But I want Canadian tax dollars spent and on Canadians; in reality I want less and less taxation but I digress. We have big problems from housing, to medi-care to infrastructure. We should get our house in order first.

 

[McG]

I understand the UKR situation is a lighting rod. But I want Canadian tax dollars spent and on Canadians; in reality I want less and less taxation but I digress. We have big problems from housing, to medi-care to infrastructure. We should get our house in order first.

The sum of money is small in comparison to federal spending, and it benefits Canada despite going to another country. If Ukraine fails, we will have much higher costs to our economy as the global system of order will fail with Ukraine.

 

[lenaitch]

Ottawa had better come up with a serious defence capability spending plan on a very abridged timeline or this country is going to be wearing the dunce cap in the corner.

"Is going to be", I feel has long passed.

 

[OldSolduer]

"Is going to be", I feel has long passed.

We are Wearing the Dunce Cap right now.

 

[daftandbarmy]

We are Wearing the Dunce Cap right now.

And it's being publicly noticed:

Elephant in the room at NATO summit: The return of Trump​

Think Canada faces pressure now to spend more on military? Wait 'til next year, Trump allies warn​

A day before the start of the NATO summit, a top U.S. congressman brought up Canada as a source of frustration without any prompting.

When asked about American allies who are pulling their weight in defence spending, the Republican speaker of the House of Representatives pivoted to the exception on his mind:

"By contrast, shamefully, [there's] Canada," Mike Johnson said during a think-tank event in Washington.

"Talk about riding on America's coattails. They have the safety and security of being on our border and not having to worry about that. I think that's shameful."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-nato-summit-analysis-1.7258865?cmp=newsletter_Morning%20Headlines%20from%20CBC%20News_1613_1628215

 

[markppcli]

The best part of this NATO summit has been to continual spot light placed upon Canadian defence spending, and the dim views of allies take on it.

It’s interesting that the government is looking mostly at large signature capital projects for spending additional money, while simultaneously underfunding most existing minor projects and O&M.

On the army side we are continuing to pursue the upgrading of the II in 1500 PVS 14s because the formal large night fighting capability project is underfunded and cannot deliver any time soon.

Domestic Arctic Mobility Enhancement is a fixed sum that is now insufficient to procure the number of BV206 replacements needed and is not expected to deliver any time soon, however we may need to cancel some Arctic trading due to safety concerns unless we stopgap procure a few vehicles until DAME finally delivers something.

The army still has no ATGM for the army at large nor the GRTF despite the Latvia UOR.


The list goes on across all the services on items that we need. All are relatively small and not billions individually but together…

Cheap, Good, Fast. We are stuck on cheap when we need good and fast. As fast as we can do it in cooperation with industry and allies.

This is what I don’t understand. We have the find, allegedly we under spend 25-30 percent, so why can’t we use that to fund these already approved projects?

 

[dimsum]

The best part of this NATO summit has been to continual spot light placed upon Canadian defence spending, and the dim views of allies take on it.




This is what I don’t understand. We have the find, allegedly we under spend 25-30 percent, so why can’t we use that to fund these already approved projects?

Calling @dapaterson …

 

[YZT580]

I understand the UKR situation is a lighting rod. But I want Canadian tax dollars spent and on Canadians; in reality I want less and less taxation but I digress. We have big problems from housing, to medi-care to infrastructure. We should get our house in order first.

stop supporting the unsupportable then. They have pledged enough in industry incentives for batteries to fund anything you want. All to stop the tide from rising.

 

[KevinB]

The best part of this NATO summit has been to continual spot light placed upon Canadian defence spending, and the dim views of allies take on it.




This is what I don’t understand. We have the find, allegedly we under spend 25-30 percent, so why can’t we use that to fund these already approved projects?

I would assume it’s ’color of money’ issues.
Canadianizing that would be different Vote criteria, and the fact that a lot of the unspent money is directed to later years (in theory at least).

 

[dapaterson]

So, money is "interesting". DND carries forward hundreds of millions in unspent o&m dollars every year - only a small portion lapses. The carry forward is used to address in year pressures for that year - you can't rely on the funding, so it should not be used to support ongoing activities.

For project and contract funds that are in the departmental investment plan, expenditure slippages normally are reprofiled annually.

When projects close with leftover funds (unspent contingency or delivered under budget) those funds revert to the investment plan, and can be used either to advance an unfunded project or address funding shortfalls for existing, funded projects.

There's a long list of unfunded projects that are prioritized annually - the Key Capability List.

Most of the investment discussions occur at Programme Management Board (PMB), co chaired by VCDS, CFO and Associate DM. Financial decisions are made at the investment and resource management committee (IRMC), with DM and CDS as co chairs.

Project approvals is another whole discussion, as is the management of the investment plan, the OPMCA of DND, and the PCRA of each project...

 

[Fabius]

In the last several years I have started to see an increase in small projects.
Buying 400 NVGs for the GRTF.
Buying 300 NVGs for the reserves.
Buying thermal defeat stuff for certain elms.
Buying safety vehicles for a training centre.
Buying/ Transferring ex RCMP vehicles to replace MILCOTs.
Etc. Etc.

The common factor in all these is that they are all viewed and delivered as stop gaps that have become needed due to the old fleets self divesting or being degraded due to age or simply not even existing as a capability. However there is also a large program of record for almost every single item but they can’t deliver on a timeline that is needed.
Institutionally we are wasting money on stop gaps because the official programs can’t deliver in a timely fashion due to various GoC and DND policies.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The sum of money is small in comparison to federal spending, and it benefits Canada despite going to another country. If Ukraine fails, we will have much higher costs to our economy as the global system of order will fail with Ukraine.

Admittedly I pay a less than zero percent attention to the Ukraine war. But my cursory perception is we should be preparing for WHEN Ukraine fails at this point.

stop supporting the unsupportable then. They have pledged enough in industry incentives for batteries to fund anything you want. All to stop the tide from rising.

Ok.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Calling @dapaterson …

 

[Fabius]

It's as if he's on a different planet ... but he knows his base:


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau delivered a climate address at the NATO summit in Washington on Tuesday, speaking about how climate change is an "existential environmental threat" and "one of the defining security issues of our time."

According to Politico - Ottawa Playbook’s daily email this morning the climate address was given in the Cdn Embassy. It seems that there were more LPC MPs in attendance than anyone else. The three notable foreign reps were the Norwegian and Belgian foreign ministers and the Biden administration senior advisor on climate change. That’s it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The collateral effects of climate change are definitely a security vector.

Unchecked population migration to lands not suited for further population growth.

Food insecurity leading to feudalism, declining health, starvation, riots and violence

Green tech doesn’t mean cheaper or more available or even less environmental damage- arguably much more

Population explosion on track for 11 billion people with declining land mass for farming, fish stock depletion, livestock capacity unable to keep up.

Disease propagated by contaminated dirty war and foul air.

Human beings will rise up and fight for a better quality of life.

Edit to say but all of this is Trudeau trying to change the nature and substance of the discussion because he is bound and determined to not do much more for national defence.

The conditions of immiseration have been steadily declining world-wide for decades.

Many of the prescriptions of climate alarmists will exacerbate immiseration by diverting resources away from things that work. That's the doomsday scenario that should concern people.

 

[The Bread Guy]

According to Politico - Ottawa Playbook’s daily email this morning the climate address was given in the Cdn Embassy. It seems that there were more LPC MPs in attendance than anyone else. The three notable foreign reps were the Norwegian and Belgian foreign ministers and the Biden administration senior advisor on climate change. That’s it.

There you go getting all facty & stuff - no gotcha memes to be had there

 

[PrairieFella]

Admittedly I pay a less than zero percent attention to the Ukraine war. But my cursory perception is we should be preparing for WHEN Ukraine fails at this point.

I'd rather those tax dollars go to killing Russki invaders than being wasted by some L1 on new furniture. Makes the Army's job easier down the road if the Russians decide to hit Poland or the Baltics.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I'd rather those tax dollars go to killing Russki invaders than being wasted by some L1 on new furniture. Makes the Army's job easier down the road if the Russians decide to hit Poland or the Baltics.

Yet if Ukraine throws in the towel simply because it is exhausted, that will all just be a sunk cost and we won't have anything ready to help in Poland and the Baltics, nor to deter anyone else who thinks that NATO or various coalitions of the willing centred on the US are temporarily weak.