Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[PrairieFella]

General Dynamics to Ottawa: We need more military orders or risk layoffs

London’s military armoured vehicle maker is lobbying the federal government for orders, citing layoffs without new work.

lfpress.com

LAV700 incoming?

Some of the RegF's LAVs are pretty haggard atm anyways. We'd all much rather something tracked at that weight class but if that's what it takes to get AFVs with more modern armour, more power and integrated missiles, better than nothing. I wish we had Lynx or CV90 as much as the next crewman but we have to be realists here.

 

[Czech_pivo]

They are completely worried about us going with some European competitor.

LAV700 incoming?

Some of the RegF's LAVs are pretty haggard atm anyways. We'd all much rather something tracked at that weight class but if that's what it takes to get AFVs with more modern armour, more power and integrated missiles, better than nothing. I wish we had Lynx or CV90 as much as the next crewman but we have to be realists here.

 

[PrairieFella]

They are completely worried about us going with some European competitor.

I imagine BAE won't license CV90 to GDLSC eh?

 

[dapaterson]

My suggestion is to scrap the MCpl pay scale; give a MCpl allowance (say $300 monthly) instead, and use the pay band space freed up between Cpl Max and Sgt Basic to add two more Cpl incentives.

Based on my very very rough math, since there would be a large population jumping two IPCs, the CAF could pay for that change by foregoing an increase for one year - so for one year, everyone would get IPC increases but the rates would not be increased.

 

[YZT580]

Still cheaper than a Patriot

A couple of squadrons of A1s would do the job nicely

 

[OldSolduer]

The Skyraiders?

 

[Underway]

LAV700 incoming?

Some of the RegF's LAVs are pretty haggard atm anyways. We'd all much rather something tracked at that weight class but if that's what it takes to get AFVs with more modern armour, more power and integrated missiles, better than nothing. I wish we had Lynx or CV90 as much as the next crewman but we have to be realists here.

Medium calvary vehicle project is listening...

Also the new 120mm mortar proposal for the IFM and the fact that a LAV 10x10 may be the base for the RCH 155 option would add about 200 new vehicles to that list.

Then there is the GBAD issue which I'm sure will need vehicles with air defence turrets. And of course the 4th Mech Brigade group they want to build in Gagetown.

 

[Underway]

This is also the same noise comming from Seaspan. "If we don't get a new ship design project in the next 18-24mo we'll have to lay off the hard won design expertise we developed over the last 10 years".

I suspect that there will be an order for both GDLS and Seaspan.

 

[Czech_pivo]

This is also the same noise comming from Seaspan. "If we don't get a new ship design project in the next 18-24mo we'll have to lay off the hard won design expertise we developed over the last 10 years".

I suspect that there will be an order for both GDLS and Seaspan.

All of these things pulls more and more projects away from what we can buy from the Euros. The number of possible projects that we can do with them, in order to be allowed into their defence spending program, boils down to possibly some French fighters, the arty/mortar RFI, helo’s and maybe tanks. I think the subs will go SK. Outside shot for the Corvettes to be a Euro/CDN project.
If new LAV’s on are the top then the CV90 will most likely be off the table.

 

[KevinB]

GDLS also makes tracks.

 

[PrairieFella]

Uunfortunately heavily ITARed track.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This is also the same noise comming from Seaspan. "If we don't get a new ship design project in the next 18-24mo we'll have to lay off the hard won design expertise we developed over the last 10 years".

I suspect that there will be an order for both GDLS and Seaspan.

We can have them do some designs, but not build them. Even offer to design stuff for our allies like Chile and Philippines.

 

[GR66]

Uunfortunately heavily ITARed track.

I get the whole "Trump and USA Bad" thing but I'd still say a Canadian-built US product is better than a foreign-built European product where all the money flows out of the country.

I'd take a Canadian-built South Korean product as well, but frankly I think that is highly unlikely as building South Korean tracked IFV's would likely mean the closure of GDLS-C and I just don't see the numbers of tanks or artillery Canada's looking for making domestic production make sense. Possibly a maintenance facility?

My guess? With all the money that Canada already needs to spend on a multitude of projects there will be no replacement of the LAVs with a new tracked IFV fleet. GDLS-C will get orders for various LAV-based variants (SHORAD, Mortar, etc.) and possibly replacements of worn vehicles in order to keep them busy.

 

[FJAG]

There are numerous more vehicles we need. For a start AD like M-SHORAD. Mortars under armour. More OPVs. More ACSVs like MRTs, engrs and Ambulances. Then add on a tracked family based on the ASCOD/AJAX family - lets say four battalions for starters. We can keep these folks working for decades and still not fill the need.

 

[GR66]

There are numerous more vehicles we need. For a start AD like M-SHORAD. Mortars under armour. More OPVs. More ACSVs like MRTs, engrs and Ambulances. Then add on a tracked family based on the ASCOD/AJAX family - lets say four battalions for starters. We can keep these folks working for decades and still not fill the need.

As you noted there are lots of vehicles required but I'm willing to bet that with all the other MASSIVE spending commitments the CAF has (NORAD modernization, River-Class, P-8's, F-35's, submarines, HIMARS, SP Artillery, AD, multi-mission corvettes, AT, comms upgrades, satellites, tanks, munitions, not to mention infrastructure upgrades and spending to resolve recruiting and retention issues) that replacing the LAVs with a tracked vehicle will be far, far, FAR down the list.

 

[Underway]

There are numerous more vehicles we need. For a start AD like M-SHORAD. Mortars under armour. More OPVs. More ACSVs like MRTs, engrs and Ambulances. Then add on a tracked family based on the ASCOD/AJAX family - lets say four battalions for starters. We can keep these folks working for decades and still not fill the need.

I know it had teething problems but the AJAX is so cool. That caseless ammo is amazing. I suspect that a we would probably go with a different turret design though.

 

[quadrapiper]

This is also the same noise comming from Seaspan. "If we don't get a new ship design project in the next 18-24mo we'll have to lay off the hard won design expertise we developed over the last 10 years".

I suspect that there will be an order for both GDLS and Seaspan.

Is there room within any of the developing defence arrangements to line the designers up with foreign work?

 

[FJAG]

I know it had teething problems but the AJAX is so cool. That caseless ammo is amazing. I suspect that a we would probably go with a different turret design though.

I'm partial to Moog turrets.

 

[PrairieFella]

I'm partial to Moog turrets.

The RIWP turret is super interesting. Modularity done right. XM914/M230LF and Javelin would be darn effective.

 

[FJAG]

As you noted there are lots of vehicles required but I'm willing to bet that with all the other MASSIVE spending commitments the CAF has (NORAD modernization, River-Class, P-8's, F-35's, submarines, HIMARS, SP Artillery, AD, multi-mission corvettes, AT, comms upgrades, satellites, tanks, munitions, not to mention infrastructure upgrades and spending to resolve recruiting and retention issues) that replacing the LAVs with a tracked vehicle will be far, far, FAR down the list.

The issue here isn't filling a need that the army has but filling a need that Canada has with keep a key defence industry viable. That's worth sacrificing something else for.