The War in Ukraine
- Thread starter Bruce Monkhouse
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Pelorus
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I made a New Year's Resolution to stop posting on this website, but once again I'm going to fail. So as someone that's been around here for a while, I've seen multiple posts over the years on this website slagging the CAF subreddit as a foil to this forum, arguing that Reddit is full of misinformation and low-effort posting, or at least just salty junior members who don't understand the CAF. While I don't disagree that other CAF websites have issues, I think we need to have some self-reflection about what this website is and what it contributes.
You're one of the most prolific posters on this forum, with almost 42,000 posts across a nearly 20-year-old account. That's almost an average of 7 posts a day, for 20 years. Without knowing the details of what you've done in your career, I'm sure that it involved more than what you seem to contribute to this website, which to me seems to generally consist of either dismissive 1-liner posts ending in an emoji, or vaguely relevant links to Harvard Business Review or other publications that consultants seem to love.
As far as I can tell, the "true.news.daily" post that you've linked is AI-generated right-wing propaganda. The Instagram page has two links it refers to in its profile: an "AI Maga" Facebook page which seems to host the same AI-generated bullshit engagement-bait propaganda as the Instagram page, and "prep-gear .com" [link break mine], which as you can see from the screencap I just took seems to be such a low-effort AI webpage that the scammers couldn't even be bothered to fill in the tombstone data for their Privacy Page.
Nobody disagrees that there are posters here who work daily in ops, policy, procurement, etc. who have incredible insight to bring to this website. But it seems to me that more and more they're diluted by low-effort posts like the one above. The fact that this post has been up for 4+ days now without challenge is unfortunate, but not surprising. Many here are happy to gloss over posts that align with their social and/or political biases without critical thought. We know that adversaries flood us with misinformation; assuming we want this place to be better than Reddit, as one of the most prolific posters here please don't contribute to this and muddy the waters between here and the CAF subreddit.
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Skysix
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daftandbarmy
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Like my marksmanship skills, I land outside of the MPI sometimes. Ask one of the Mods to remove it if you want.
Believe me, I won't be offended
GK .Dundas
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I'm not too sure why but I get the distinct impression that the current British PM s Being deliberately targeted by the Russians and that includes the arson attacks.Like my marksmanship skills, I land outside of the MPI sometimes. Ask one of the Mods to remove it if you want.
Believe me, I won't be offended
Maxman1
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Or perhaps people viewed it as junk and just ignored it.
Mate aren't we already doing that?There is always cash, whoops, sorry, not much inventory there either.GDLS is laying people off in London, maybe a contract to build vehicles for Ukraine would be in order.
I admit I don't know how the final agreement was structured, but I thought GDLS was keeping themselves busy with a 360 vehicle order for us, and 49 ASCV's for Ukraine...
(I know that was first announced a few years ago now, but I was under the impression the contract hadn't yet been fulfilled?
___
But in similar news, there is this
Why Bronco All-terrain Vehicles Go to Ukraine Without Any Public Photo While Canada Plans Launch Its Civilian Version | Defense Express
To boost Canada’s Arctic capabilities, Roshel will produce ExtremeV all-terrain vehicles — the commercial version of the Bronco military transporter supplied to Ukraine
en.defence-ua.com
How is the GoC ignoring the world??
Said in the voice of Goofy
"We've got the best & strongest economy in the G7, doncha' know!?"
MilEME09
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2nd best
MilEME09
Army.ca Fixture
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My idea would be donate our LAV 6s in batches to Ukraine and the order new LAV6s with the 2.0 turret for our selves. Refreshes the fleet and slowly gives new modern vehicles to Ukraine.Mate aren't we already doing that?
I admit I don't know how the final agreement was structured, but I thought GDLS was keeping themselves busy with a 360 vehicle order for us, and 49 ASCV's for Ukraine...
(I know that was first announced a few years ago now, but I was under the impression the contract hadn't yet been fulfilled?
___
But in similar news, there is this
Why Bronco All-terrain Vehicles Go to Ukraine Without Any Public Photo While Canada Plans Launch Its Civilian Version | Defense Express
To boost Canada’s Arctic capabilities, Roshel will produce ExtremeV all-terrain vehicles — the commercial version of the Bronco military transporter supplied to Ukraine
KevinB
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They just want CV-90 and Bradley’s for IFV at this point.
The LAV 6.0 isn’t a practical IFV for an Armored formation. It seems everyone but Canadians get this point.
Blackadder1916
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Like my marksmanship skills, I land outside of the MPI sometimes. Ask one of the Mods to remove it if you want.
Believe me, I won't be offended
When I saw the 'offending' post, I will admit that I was confused about the connection of the British PM and Ukrainian rent boys to "the war in Ukraine". However, as your years of service in HM British Forces have undoubtedly provided you with some insight (if not the proclivity) into the sexual peccadilloes of the English political classes, I was prepared to chalk it up to 'typical shiteaters - can't let a day pass without a sexual scandal'. And if there isn't a real political sexual scandal, they'll invent it. You don't even have to have a tabloid anymore.
After the failed New Year's resolution put renew attention on your post, I found myself wondering if there was anyone besides a bitter failed ex-Conservative MP* (expelled from the party), vaccine conspiracy theorist with his own history of political scandal (sexual and otherwise) commenting (with a wink wink, nudge nudge) about arson attacks on the property of the Labour PM. There was. It probably doesn't get much attention on this side of the pond, why should it, who really gives a damn about the Brits.
Something from Radio Free Europe that has less of the titillation spin.
Why Are Ukrainians Accused Of Torching Kier Starmer's Properties? A Chat Group For Jobs May Hold Clues
British police have implicated four men, including two Ukrainian nationals, in a plot to set fire to properties linked to the British prime minister. It’s a head-scratching case that has raised fears of a secret recruiting campaign backed by Russian intelligence.
www.rferl.org
While not directly in line with the topic of this thread, it might be more appropriate in the political aspects of Ukraine war thread.
* and failed Royal Marine officer training
PrairieFella
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Even if their frontline armoured Brigades wouldn't want them, they have dozens of formations that could make use of them. National Guard, Reserve Brigades, Border Police, etc.
daftandbarmy
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When I saw the 'offending' post, I will admit that I was confused about the connection of the British PM and Ukrainian rent boys to "the war in Ukraine". However, as your years of service in HM British Forces have undoubtedly provided you with some insight (if not the proclivity) into the sexual peccadilloes of the English political classes, I was prepared to chalk it up to 'typical shiteaters - can't let a day pass without a sexual scandal'. And if there isn't a real political sexual scandal, they'll invent it. You don't even have to have a tabloid anymore.
After the failed New Year's resolution put renew attention on your post, I found myself wondering if there was anyone besides a bitter failed ex-Conservative MP* (expelled from the party), vaccine conspiracy theorist with his own history of political scandal (sexual and otherwise) commenting (with a wink wink, nudge nudge) about arson attacks on the property of the Labour PM. There was. It probably doesn't get much attention on this side of the pond, why should it, who really gives a damn about the Brits.
Something from Radio Free Europe that has less of the titillation spin.
Why Are Ukrainians Accused Of Torching Kier Starmer's Properties? A Chat Group For Jobs May Hold Clues
British police have implicated four men, including two Ukrainian nationals, in a plot to set fire to properties linked to the British prime minister. It’s a head-scratching case that has raised fears of a secret recruiting campaign backed by Russian intelligence.
While not directly in line with the topic of this thread, it might be more appropriate in the political aspects of Ukraine war thread.
* and failed Royal Marine officer training
Sexual deviance/ misconduct seems to be a pre-requisite for high political office in the UK, and has been for a long time, much to the glee of the press of course. The allegations against Starmer should not then come a surprise to anyone with even a passing background knowledge of UK public 'affairs'. E.g.,
The House of Commons has a long history of sexual misconduct
Fixing the culture of Parliament is not easy
When the school nurse walked into the London schoolroom in 1815, she found the member of Parliament for Barnstaple already there. Sir Eyre Coote was distinguished by a history of public service and a surpassing fondness for flagellation. He had popped into the school that day to pay the young boys to flog him. The nurse arrived as Coote was buttoning up his breeches. Scandal duly ensued and, in the words of Robert Morrison, a historian, Coote became “the most infamous Regency flagellant”.
The House of Commons has a long history of sexual misconduct
Fixing the culture of Parliament is not easy
Even PBS has a special about it...
Politicians Behaving Badly: 7 British Government Scandals
Discover true scandals that rocked modern UK politics, from attempted murder and feigned death to affairs with gangsters and more.
www.pbs.org
This is somewhat out of date so could be considered a short list...
List of sexual misconduct allegations made against MPs
A Conservative MP arrested on suspicion of rape has been released on bail
www.theguardian.com
More recently...
MP Patrick Spencer charged with two counts of sexual assault
Tory party withdraws whip from Central Suffolk and North Ipswich MP over alleged incidents at Groucho Club in London in 2023
www.theguardian.com
So, yeah, 'it figures' is a common refrain when such things come to light...
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dont know who got fired, they were threatening to layoff design personnel without further ordersMate aren't we already doing that?
I admit I don't know how the final agreement was structured, but I thought GDLS was keeping themselves busy with a 360 vehicle order for us, and 49 ASCV's for Ukraine...
(I know that was first announced a few years ago now, but I was under the impression the contract hadn't yet been fulfilled?
___
But in similar news, there is this
Why Bronco All-terrain Vehicles Go to Ukraine Without Any Public Photo While Canada Plans Launch Its Civilian Version | Defense Express
To boost Canada’s Arctic capabilities, Roshel will produce ExtremeV all-terrain vehicles — the commercial version of the Bronco military transporter supplied to Ukraine
By February 2023 they had produced 86
February 2024 it was up to 118
February 2025 ???
MilEME09
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Maybe so, but what's better? Let them collect dust or give them to someone who will make good use of them? Beats the heck out of a bmp1
FJAG
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The all-inclusive "Canadians" is too broad judging by the numbers of folks on even this forum who see the utility of the CV-90 family of vehicles. I'll leave out the Bradley which, despite its performance is now a 45-year-old model that's been tinkered with but in need of replacement as well.
Those in the decision making game in Canada, bought into the wheeled Striker/LAV family before the turn of the century based on certain assumptions about the nature of armed conflict and the usefulness of mid-level, easily air-transportable, light armoured vehicles. Afghanistan showed the technical flaws in those assumptions leading to the CCV project which emphasized certain improvements such as better mine resistance and armour in general. Unfortunately only one of the contenders was a tracked vehicle while the rest were wheeled.
The army, and not the government wanted to cancel the CCV project because of cost and a realization that much of what the wheeled CCV contenders were offering was already appearing in the concurrent LAV-UP program which made significant strides in many categories but did not do anything to improve its weapons platform. One can argue about the need for better weapons, but realistically, a LAV is not an IFV, should not be used as an IFV and, being envisioned as more in the nature of a battlefield taxi than a vehicle for close combat, didn't need that. The dismounts certainly needed better weapons but things like more and better anti-armour weapons weren't in the cards while the country, and most of the world, were still looking at failed states, with poor armour at best, as the prime candidates for conflict. Eventually the government agreed with the army's push to cancel CCV in 2013.
From 2011 and 2013 one needs to morph to the present. With some 550 LAVs upgraded to LAV 6.0, another 66 LRSS and another 360 LAV-based ACSVs, the army had sunk considerable capital into the LAV fleet. To the best of my knowledge, there is no ongoing project to either replace the basic LAV with a different vehicle because in general the fleet is adequate for the middle role that it was designed to fill. But it is not a good vehicle to support light forces and it is obvious to most that it is not an adequate vehicle to support heavy forces.
Personally I'm on record and on side with the fact that Canada needs a better armoured capability including more tanks, tracked IFVs and tracked SP howitzers plus a tracked close support CSS fleet. I'm also on record of saying we need a formation of light troops with the appropriate CS and CSS support fleets. That leaves a middle where the existing LAV inventory does have a role but on the strict condition that its dismounts are fully equipped for modern LSCOs with proper AA and AD capabilities.
This gets us back to the question of what does the army, as an institution, needs to be when it grows up? What size does it need to be? What, and how many, properly equipped armoured, mechanized and light formations does it need for the defence of Canada and expeditionary missions in support its NATO ambitions? To simply say we need CV-90s isn't good enough. But, to find the actual answer to that question, the army needs to fully rid itself of past notions of symmetric formations, modular battle-groups TF deployments, the non-equipping of its reserve forces and their underutilization other than as Class B office overload, the undervaluation of its CSS as mobilizable entities, and a large herd of other less important and less blatant capability gaps.
We keep trivializing the concept of making napkin forces rather than using large wordy studies to develop the army vision. In contrast, I think napkin forces are exactly where one has to start. One starts with a large scale vision to determine how you cover the country's needs for land-based forces with the resources you already have or need to get. With the high order vision and force structure set out, you drill ever deeper into the napkin structure to determine detailed needs - force structure, force infrastructure, force generation structures, people, weapons, vehicles etc., industrial support structures, etc. At all stages you need a graphic overlay, which shows design flaws and can be easily adjusted, and that can be easily understood, championed and communicated to all stake-holders.
Sorry for the lengthy spout. I tend to do that when I think an answer just scrapes the surface of the problem.
yes but not really. If we had placed a significant order from London they wouldn't be laying people off they would be in full productionMate aren't we already doing that?
I admit I don't know how the final agreement was structured, but I thought GDLS was keeping themselves busy with a 360 vehicle order for us, and 49 ASCV's for Ukraine...
(I know that was first announced a few years ago now, but I was under the impression the contract hadn't yet been fulfilled?
___
But in similar news, there is this
Why Bronco All-terrain Vehicles Go to Ukraine Without Any Public Photo While Canada Plans Launch Its Civilian Version | Defense Express
To boost Canada’s Arctic capabilities, Roshel will produce ExtremeV all-terrain vehicles — the commercial version of the Bronco military transporter supplied to Ukraine
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they must be trying to stretch out the low rate production. 449 ACSV for Canada and Ukraine.
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