Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Cloud Cover]

Yes, I just looked and saw that number - the timeline is also after 2040 to reach it......so 15+yrs out we will grow the total number by 20,000.

Anyone think that the timeline of 2040 can be shrunk down to say 2033-2035 with the right amount of money/effort/planning/will?

Can be done with a good, deep, long recession.

 

[Czech_pivo]

That is not a comparable scenario. No I won't thank Trudeau for making Canada less attractive to business and investment in pursuit of his ideology.



Just acknowledge that without serious pressure and action from the US this wouldn't be happening.

That's the problem these days - no accountability and no agency. Its a never ending gaslight.

But at the exact same time there is no acknowledgment of when ‘the other side’ does do something ‘right’, something that cuts across party lines and all sides know it’s the right thing.
One should ALWAYS give credit when credit is due - doesn’t matter who did it, why they did it or how it was done.
Just say ‘job well done.’

 

[Remius]

Just acknowledge that without serious pressure and action from the US this wouldn't be happening.

Threats, insults, invented emergencies, trade wars and broken treaties. Just acknowledge that that is what the US did.

We’ll never likely have the same relationship we once had but given what has happened we’ll eventually be far more insulated should the US pull this again.

The only thanks I’ll give is to the voters who chose an adult to deal with the situation.

 

[MilEME09]

Hate to be that guy ti twist the thread this way.....again


But if we really are going to 2% and beyond. This is a holden moment we're we really need to take a hard look at reserve reform and how to get the ost out of a 2% GDP force. Including training, equipment, and expansion. As FJAG has pointed out multiple times, you can get multiple reserve soldiers for the price of 1 reg force soldier. The dream of a self sufficient reserve will also never happen when its smaller then the reg force.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Mind you the previous relationship, really only started forming after WWII, so perhaps where we are is the historical normal?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Hate to be that guy ti twist the thread this way.....again


But if we really are going to 2% and beyond. This is a holden moment we're we really need to take a hard look at reserve reform and how to get the ost out of a 2% GDP force. Including training, equipment, and expansion. As FJAG has pointed out multiple times, you can get multiple reserve soldiers for the price of 1 reg force soldier. The dream of a self sufficient reserve will also never happen when its smaller then the reg force.

Restrict Class B to supporting the Reserves and oversea exercises?

 

[Remius]

Restrict Class B to supporting the Reserves and oversea exercises?

And declare all class B types not doing those things now transferred to the regs and be career managed. With a small window to opt out and submit their 30days.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But if we really are going to 2% and beyond. This is a holden moment we're we really need to take a hard look at reserve reform and how to get the ost out of a 2% GDP force. Including training, equipment, and expansion. As FJAG has pointed out multiple times, you can get multiple reserve soldiers for the price of 1 reg force soldier. The dream of a self sufficient reserve will also never happen when its smaller then the reg force.

There are isues with the PRes that have nothing to do with size, of course

 

[Colin Parkinson]

And declare all class B types not doing those things now transferred to the regs and be career managed. With a small window to opt out and submit their 30days.

or at the very least move them to Class C?

 

[GR66]

Globe and Mail is reporting this now.

https://archive.is/xvW6A

It’s also expected that the Canadian Coast Guard, currently a civilian operating agency under the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, will be moved under the Department of National Defence. (The move would mirror the U.S. Coast Guard, which is a branch of the U.S. Armed Forces.)

I'm curious if the Globe's "expected" moving of the CCG from DFO to DND is accurate. The wording from the press release simply states :

• Expanding the reach, security mandate, and abilities of the Canadian Coast Guard and integrating it into our NATO defence capabilities – to better secure our sovereignty and expand maritime surveillance.

I didn't see the press conference or read all the articles related to the announcement yet but could that simply mean that CCG ships might get upgraded sensors and IT systems to allow them to contribute to the overall maritime picture and maybe sail more often with enforcement detachments from other government agencies embarked? That might allow a portion of their budget to count toward our overall defence spending without the CCG actually becoming part of DND.

Has anyone heard any more specific details about the CCG plans?

 

[dapaterson]

or at the very least move them to Class C?

No.

Class C should me augmenting the Reg F for other than routine activities.

If all you want is full time employment in a static location, that's a Reg F subcomponent.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Framing of the Transmountain expansion varies. I see the expansion as a project that would have gone ahead privately if Trudeau's government hadn't had a hand in its failure. I grant no credit to someone who fucks something up and then manages to recover something useful at great cost because to him no expense need be spared.

 

[MilEME09]

Restrict Class B to supporting the Reserves and oversea exercises?

Or with the increase in PYs expected we actually properly staff the reg force so Class Bs aren't needed? Except maybe in the case of having open contracts for a 1 year max for OJT

 

[cmdj1982]

But at the exact same time there is no acknowledgment of when ‘the other side’ does do something ‘right’, something that cuts across party lines and all sides know it’s the right thing.
One should ALWAYS give credit when credit is due - doesn’t matter who did it, why they did it or how it was done.
Just say ‘job well done.’

100% Job Well Done!

 

[Maxman1]

Just say ‘job well done.’

 

[lenaitch]

Working under DND doesn't mean working for the military. It means working for the department. It think this is a bit of a NATO calculation magic show. I don't expect the Coast Guard to change, they will just report to a different minister.

If the government intends to respect the NATIO spending guidelines, they life within the CCG will have to change. From the NATO document:

"They might also include parts of other forces such as Ministry of Interior troops, national police forces, coast guards etc. In such cases, expenditure is included only in proportion to the forces that are trained in military tactics, are equipped as a military force, can operate under direct military authority in deployed operations, and can, realistically, be deployed outside national territory in support of a military force."

Nobody can be guaranteed that their job will never change, but 'militarizing' the CCG would be a significant alteration of term of employment. I'm no labour lawyer but suspect this has the potential to be mired arbitration and/or court by those who don't want to play Navy.

Internally, we can call anything we want to be 'defence spending' but it seems 'NATO spending comes with rules.

 

[Kirkhill]

Is securing underwater cables a "military" job?

I'm wondering if moving the CCG under the MND (although not necessarily the DND - I heard a discussion that the CCG might become its own department reporting to the MND directly) is to take some of the weight off the RCN.

It doesn't have to think about things like this

RFA Proteus - Seabed Warfare Vessel.

RFA Proteus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...

And could the CCG, by virtue of their navigation role, be tasked with mine clearance as well?

RFA Stirling Castle Autonomous Mine Hunting Mothership
ARCIMS Autonomous Minehunting Launch

RFA Stirling Castle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sea-class workboat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

....

Liberals considering arming the Coast Guard amid significant pivot towards new security mandate

The Liberal government is mulling arming the Canadian Coast Guard as launches a significant reform of the civilian maritime agency.

nationalpost.com

On the same day Carney announced his plan to accelerate defence spending this year, his office told National Post Monday that the CCG — which currently reports to the minister of fisheries — would shift to the minister of national defence’s portfolio.

There are also talks within government of switching the Coast Guard from a special operating agency, which is still part of its host department, into a departmental agency with its own governing legislation that reports to the Minister of National Defense.

In an interview in late May, (former CCG Commissioner Jody) Thomas argued that that needs to happen.

“It does need to be a legislative agency, the special operating agency status right now, that’s a very flimsy sort of architecture and legal basis for an agency” with a security focus, Thomas said.

The move away from the fisheries minister makes it both likely easier for the CCG’s budget to be included in Canada’s defence spending in the eyes of NATO and is part of Carney’s desire to pivot the 63-year-old civilian agency towards a more security-oriented role.

“Canadians elected our new Government on a strong mandate for change — to protect our borders and defend our sovereignty with increased focus and investment. To that end, the Prime Minister will soon initiate the process of moving the Canadian Coast Guard to the leadership of the Minister of National Defence,” PMO spokesperson Emily Williams said in a statement.

“The change will permit the Coast Guard to fulfill better both its civilian and security responsibilities.”

So the CCG would report to MND on similar terms to CSE, independent of DND.

....

On the arming question

Regarding armaments, she (Thomas) said that icebreakers currently under construction have been fitted for, but not with, weapons, meaning that arming them would be a relatively straightforward task.

The real challenge of arming the Coast Guard, she warned, is training.

“It’s a very expensive decision, not for the weaponry, but for the training and the constant preparation and exercising that’s required,” she said. “The Navy is always in training… for what’s coming. The Coast Guard is out there working. So, it’s a very different fleet and with very different purposes.”

A senior Liberal source also told National Post that the government is considering arming the CCG, though they stressed that no decision has been made yet as officials continue to chart the reform.

Arming the CCG, which would be a massive — and costly — change for the special agency that has always been an unarmed civilian organization.

“We’re not there yet,” the official said of the decision. The source was granted anonymity to discuss internal government deliberations.

Due to its icebreaking capabilities, it also has unique expertise on the Canadian Arctic within the government.

Does this suggest the possible transfer of the Arctic/Northwest Passage and all 8 of the AOPS to the CCG from the RCN?

Freeing up budget and people for Corvettes and Subs?

....

The Coast Guard has struggled for years with its mandate, pulled between its various responsibilities such as research, search and rescue, icebreaking, marine protection and coastal surveillance, but without any law enforcement powers.

In the recent election campaign, the Liberals promised to give the CCG a new mandate “to conduct maritime surveillance operations” along with the required equipment.

Last week, the Liberals tabled a border security bill that proposes to give the CCG a new security mandate, the power to conduct “security patrols” and the ability to share information with the military and intelligence agencies.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Is securing underwater cables a "military" job?

If it's done by an organization that "is trained in military tactics, are equipped as a military force, can operate under direct military authority in deployed operations, and can, realistically, be deployed outside national territory in support of a military force" , then yes, it would be a "military" job according to NATO.

 

[Kirkhill]

If it's done by an organization that "is trained in military tactics, are equipped as a military force, can operate under direct military authority in deployed operations, and can, realistically, be deployed outside national territory in support of a military force" , then yes, it would be a "military" job according to NATO.

I guess I was looking at the question in terms of if it has to be an RCN job or it could be a CCG job.

In terms of whether or not we would get NATO brownie points if we transferred it to the CCG then can the CCG, or at least an element of them be "trained in military tactics, ... equipped as a military force, ... operate under direct military authority in deployed operations, and ..., realistically, be deployed outside national territory in support of a military force".

With or without RCNR support.

 

[lenaitch]

Is securing underwater cables a "military" job?

I'm wondering if moving the CCG under the MND (although not necessarily the DND - I heard a discussion that the CCG might become its own department reporting to the MND directly) is to take some of the weight off the RCN.

It doesn't have to think about things like this

RFA Proteus - Seabed Warfare Vessel.

RFA Proteus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 93792

...

And could the CCG, by virtue of their navigation role, be tasked with mine clearance as well?

RFA Stirling Castle Autonomous Mine Hunting Mothership
ARCIMS Autonomous Minehunting Launch

RFA Stirling Castle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sea-class workboat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 93793
View attachment 93794

....

Liberals considering arming the Coast Guard amid significant pivot towards new security mandate

The Liberal government is mulling arming the Canadian Coast Guard as launches a significant reform of the civilian maritime agency.

nationalpost.com

So the CCG would report to MND on similar terms to CSE, independent of DND.

....

On the arming question







Does this suggest the possible transfer of the Arctic/Northwest Passage and all 8 of the AOPS to the CCG from the RCN?

Freeing up budget and people for Corvettes and Subs?

....

I disagree with the quote that "the real challenge of arming the Coast Guard is training". Training is a challenge, but the real challenge is authority. In civie-land, you get to use reasonable force to exercise a lawful authority. No one can order you to use it or not use it. In civie-land, you can't shoot the other guy simply because he is the other guy (or might be the other guy).