Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Spencer100]

Ok, If the CCG is moving, should the RCAF SAR helicopters not move too?

 

[dapaterson]

Ok, If the CCG is moving, should the RCAF SAR helicopters not move too?

And FWSAR.

 

[brihard]

And FWSAR.

I was writing a reply but got to recognizing I was outside of my arcs.

Are CCG and CAF SAR bifurcated in operations in any meaningful way that a consolidation of all SAR into to a single agency would fix, or would it just be playing games with reporting lines without impacting real operations when someone’s having an awful day? Is there an actual problem here to fix?

 

[Kirkhill]

Have ‘the institutions’ been paying any attention to the new boss? They’re going to be given their roles and arcs, and they’ll be given leadership - existing, or replacement - who can work them hard within those roles and arcs. I don’t believe the PM is super interested in certain institutions’ historical self-conceptions versus the ‘now’ need.

I continue to give the man the benefit of the doubt. He is doing more things right than wrong. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The National SAR Secretariat belongs to Public Safety Canada.

They coordinate the Interdepartmental Committee on SAR.

The MND owns the JRCCs, which are staffed jointly by CAF and Coast Guard personnel.

SAR response is divided three ways in Canada.

Ground SAR is primarily a Provincial Responsibility.

Marine SAR is primarily a Coast Guard Responsibilty.

Air SAR is primarily a RCAF responsibility.

Depending on the SAR case and who is the closest asset, anybody from that list above could be the first responder.

So, putting Air SAR under the Coast Guard would not be a crazy reach (particularly if the CG was under the MND) , but the devil would be in the details.

 

[Kirkhill]

The National SAR Secretariat belongs to Public Safety Canada.

They coordinate the Interdepartmental Committee on SAR.

The MND owns the JRCCs, which are staffed jointly by CAF and Coast Guard personnel.

SAR response is divided three ways in Canada.

Ground SAR is primarily a Provincial Responsibility.

Marine SAR is primarily a Coast Guard Responsibilty.

Air SAR is primarily a RCAF responsibility.

Depending on the SAR case and who is the closest asset, anybody from that list above could be the first responder.

So, putting Air SAR under the Coast Guard would not be a crazy reach (particularly if the CG was under the MND) , but the devil would be in the details.

What is the practical relationship of the SAR Secretariat with Emergency Preparedness? And that of Public Safety and DND?

Is there a practical or operational hierarchy?

 

[brihard]

The National SAR Secretariat belongs to Public Safety Canada.

They coordinate the Interdepartmental Committee on SAR.

The MND owns the JRCCs, which are staffed jointly by CAF and Coast Guard personnel.

SAR response is divided three ways in Canada.

Ground SAR is primarily a Provincial Responsibility.

Marine SAR is primarily a Coast Guard Responsibilty.

Air SAR is primarily a RCAF responsibility.

Depending on the SAR case and who is the closest asset, anybody from that list above could be the first responder.

So, putting Air SAR under the Coast Guard would not be a crazy reach (particularly if the CG was under the MND) , but the devil would be in the details.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

What is the practical relationship of the SAR Secretariat with Emergency Preparedness? And that of Public Safety and DND?

Is there a practical or operational hierarchy?

I actually do not know.

 

[Kirkhill]

I actually do not know.

Thanks.

Still trying to figure out the gray zones

Criminals versus little green men
Paramilitary vs military vs police
Emergency Preparedness vs SAR vs DART
RCN vs CCG vs RCNR vs Marine Atlantic
Rangers roles

Etc.

 

[Kilted]

Thanks.

Still trying to figure out the gray zones

Criminals versus little green men
Paramilitary vs military vs police
Emergency Preparedness vs SAR vs DART
RCN vs CCG vs RCNR vs Marine Atlantic
Rangers roles

Etc.

Search and Rescue is a function of emergency preparedness/ emergency management. Emergency Management is conducted by every level of government, but not every level of government has search and rescue.

 

[The Bread Guy]

So far, survey says: 2/3 surveyed good with meeting 2% pledge (with about as many saying 5%'s too much)

Hitting the Mark? Two-thirds support 2% defence spending pledge; almost as many say 5% ‘too much’ -

Most prefer joining ReArm Europe over U.S. alliance despite knowing it could harm relations with U.S. June 10, 2025 – It’ll cost approximately $20 billion more dollars, but Prime Minister Mark Carney announced Monday that Canada will reach the NATO defence spending target of two per cent of GDP...

angusreid.org

Some breakdowns by party self-reporting ...



... and a bit on where the money could come from


Details on the survey

 

[ytz]

They don't do assembly lines of 1. There is a full review of rotary wing happening for the airforce right now, so we'll see what the looks like.

Chinooks can be bought single. At a high price.

But as you say, there's now full reviews for all the helicopter fleets, aiming for a more unified strategy. Better to be wait and make decisions on what to buy, more holistically.

So far, survey says: 2/3 surveyed good with meeting 2% pledge (with about as many saying 5%'s too much)

This is like climate change policies. Everybody likes the theory. Nobody likes the practice. Ask them how much they'd be willing to pay or what they'd be willing to give up.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... This is like climate change policies. Everybody likes the theory. Nobody likes the practice. Ask them how much they'd be willing to pay or what they'd be willing to give up.

Only in this case, the survey folks asked just that

 

[brihard]

Thanks.

Still trying to figure out the gray zones

Criminals versus little green men
Paramilitary vs military vs police

“Little green men” would be ‘threats to the security of Canada’ as defined in the CSIS act, and their sctivities would absolutely be criminal either under the terrorism provisions of the Criminal Code or the foreign interference provisions of the Foreign Interference and Security of Information Act. Any who ended up in custody would be subject to conventional criminal prosecution. If we found ourselves in a situation where ‘little green men’ have defeated the lawful monopoly of armed force on a section of Canadian territory and law enforcement could not handle it, that would be a national defence issue, though with any actual individuals reverting back to being criminally investigated (RCMP) and prosecuted (Public Prosecution Service of Canada) if they survived and were captured.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's amazing how all of a sudden we're (allegedly) going to meet 2% in under a year.

Was it just Trudeau holding us back for 10 years?
Have MPs been culpable in this giant lie?

 

[Kirkhill]

So far, survey says: 2/3 surveyed good with meeting 2% pledge (with about as many saying 5%'s too much)

Hitting the Mark? Two-thirds support 2% defence spending pledge; almost as many say 5% ‘too much’ -

Most prefer joining ReArm Europe over U.S. alliance despite knowing it could harm relations with U.S. June 10, 2025 – It’ll cost approximately $20 billion more dollars, but Prime Minister Mark Carney announced Monday that Canada will reach the NATO defence spending target of two per cent of GDP...

angusreid.org

Some breakdowns by party self-reporting ...
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View attachment 93801
View attachment 93802
... and a bit on where the money could come from
View attachment 93804
View attachment 93803
Details on the survey
View attachment 93805

Where is the "Sell more oil!" option?

 

[Kirkhill]

“Little green men” would be ‘threats to the security of Canada’ as defined in the CSIS act, and their sctivities would absolutely be criminal either under the terrorism provisions of the Criminal Code or the foreign interference provisions of the Foreign Interference and Security of Information Act. Any who ended up in custody would be subject to conventional criminal prosecution. If we found ourselves in a situation where ‘little green men’ have defeated the lawful monopoly of armed force on a section of Canadian territory and law enforcement could not handle it, that would be a national defence issue, though with any actual individuals reverting back to being criminally investigated (RCMP) and prosecuted (Public Prosecution Service of Canada) if they survived and were captured.

So, would you say that "Domestically" National Defence is a subset of Public Safety? This is my personal view.

Extraterritorial use of National Defence assets, also in my view, is an External/Foreign/Global affair.

 

[PrairieFella]

It's amazing how all of a sudden we're (allegedly) going to meet 2% in under a year.

Was it just Trudeau holding us back for 10 years?
Have MPs been culpable in this giant lie?

Global sentiment and political will met and now we're seeing its consequences. That and Carney is much more of a Wilfred Laurier or MacKenzie King Liberal, both of whom were conservative on nationalistic issues.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Where is the "Sell more oil!" option?

Could part of "other"

 

[brihard]

So, would you say that "Domestically" National Defence is a subset of Public Safety? This is my personal view.

Extraterritorial use of National Defence assets, also in my view, is an External/Foreign/Global affair.

No. National defence is national defence, we’re just unaccustomed to having to do anything in an armed capacity with CAF within Canada. Historically, in living memory, it has always been in aid of the civil power, but that’s because the scope and nature of the threats have remained within what that civil power, suitably augmented, can deal with.

I’m not equipped to say what a ‘defence-led’ security operation in Canada would look like at senior governmental levels, but if it’s a case of throwing big-picture CAF kinetically at a sustained and geographically entrenched threat on our soil, that’s something that would exceed any precedent in living memory.