Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[Kirkhill]

One of the biggest issues that seems to trip a lot of folks up is that initially SOF specific equipment cascades down to the GPF.
Tier 1 units have a fairly significant budget as they are National Level of Interest entities - a "No Fail" mission set - so there is always the push for the next edge - be it training, equipment whatever.

The Tier 2/3 units tend to get either hand me downs from the National unit - or once the equipment has been developed or acquired in sufficient number to validate (and get the price down) it is then incorporated if needed into their equipment locker.

Generally then the QRF/RDF/Light/Airborne units from the GPF start getting items that had been SOF specific.
1) While not SOF, those units tend to end up supporting SOF missions - or are involved in SOF supported missions (JFE, NEO etc)
2) Items are often Lighter, more capable, increase survivability, decrease visibility to enemies etc.

At some point after that - a lot of equipment becomes standard issue - as the price is down, it is proven, and it's more practical to adopt as general issue.


Now SOF is a catch all, and there are many different types of SOF, and SOF missions, and require a lot of different support and equipment.

And once upon a time there were line companies, heavy (grenadier) companies and light (rifle) companies.

Eventually everybody, dragoons (mounted infantry) included, got issued a rifle and was trained in light (skirmishing) tactics.

You describe a continuation of history. Experiments that work are generalized.

 

[MilEME09]

For all you napkin ORBAT folks, what does a army at 2% look like? The army of 3.5%?

At 3.5% i would have a new brigade in the maritimes, bring back 8CH and RHRC ti the regular force out of gagetown as the core of it, but make it a light brigade with a focus on air mobile and amphibious operations. (With coorialonding investment in the RCN and RCAF to enable)

 

[McG]

If you are talking about capbadges in sentence 1, then you are starting with the wrong priorities.

 

[MilEME09]

If you are talking about capbadges in sentence 1, then you are starting with the wrong priorities.

I like using names, but you are right, its about what capabilities we should be bringing to the table. The army needs to heavily expand its drone warfare abilities in each brigade, potentially a battalion sized element dedicated to drone and FPVs per brigade. Ditto our EW capabilities need to vastly expand as well.

 

[KevinB]

At 3.5% I would suggest a 3 Division Corps be your Army - not significantly larger than the 2%. I’d just add more infrastructure and equipment depth to the Army at the point, but more expansion to the RCAF and RCN.

 

[Ludoc]

For all you napkin ORBAT folks, what does a army at 2% look like? The army of 3.5%?

At 3.5% i would have a new brigade in the maritimes, bring back 8CH and RHRC ti the regular force out of gagetown as the core of it, but make it a light brigade with a focus on air mobile and amphibious operations. (With coorialonding investment in the RCN and RCAF to enable)

Why the Maritimes? They already have most of CCSB and parts of 2 Bde.

BC, on the other hand, has basically zero reg forces army presence. It is a province with a population (read: recruiting base) of of two and a half times that of the Maritimes.

Where will they put the base? If we are hand waving our way into 3.5%, we will hand wave a way to spend some of that money to buy some land.

 

[MilEME09]

Why the Maritimes? They already have most of CCSB and parts of 2 Bde.

BC, on the other hand, has basically zero reg forces army presence. It is a province with a population (read: recruiting base) of of two and a half times that of the Maritimes.

Where will they put the base? If we are hand waving our way into 3.5%, we will hand wave a way to spend some of that money to buy some land.

Definitely some land to use, honestly I always forget about the CCSB. BC would be perfect for a new base if we went that route. Other options are with the British gone to put new units in Suffield. Make a full brigade in shilo as well. Swinging back to capabilities though, seeing what's happening in Ukraine, we need to grow our repair and recovery ability and create div level repair battalions to facilitate battlefield repair. In our current structure the battles in Ukraine would of had RCEME overwhelmed even if we were at full strength. A maintenance coy of a service battalion isn't large enough to deal with it all, and we have no organic 3rd and 4th line theatre maintenance. We ad hoc NSE when we need it.

 

[KevinB]

Definitely some land to use, honestly I always forget about the CCSB. BC would be perfect for a new base if we went that route. Other options are with the British gone to put new units in Suffield. Make a full brigade in shilo as well. Swinging back to capabilities though, seeing what's happening in Ukraine, we need to grow our repair and recovery ability and create div level repair battalions to facilitate battlefield repair. In our current structure the battles in Ukraine would of had RCEME overwhelmed even if we were at full strength. A maintenance coy of a service battalion isn't large enough to deal with it all, and we have no organic 3rd and 4th line theatre maintenance. We ad hoc NSE when we need it.

View attachment 93916

Stop thinking Bde. You need to think about Divisional levels bases — at least for training.

I’d have the Light Div in BC/Ab.

Armoured Division Mech forces from Suffield to the end of the flat stretches of Manitoba

LAV Div from Quebec to the end of the Rock.

Then where to out the Corps HQ and Corps level units.

After that is sorted then look at Bde’s and smaller

 

[MilEME09]

Stop thinking Bde. You need to think about Divisional levels bases — at least for training.

I’d have the Light Div in BC/Ab.

Armoured Division Mech forces from Suffield to the end of the flat stretches of Manitoba

LAV Div from Quebec to the end of the Rock.

Then where to out the Corps HQ and Corps level units.

After that is sorted then look at Bde’s and smaller

Really we can only support one corp, just convert CJOC into a corp HQ

 

[rmc_wannabe]

In honesty, I would expand our force size exponentially, then start grouping forces based on capability/role responsibility.

In this construct, build a brigade based on the role of the lead force and have the enablers task tailor their support to the needs of that force.

My force would have:

1 Cdn Div - Expeditionary

- 1 x Armoured Bde in Wainwright or Suffield

- 1 x Mech Brigade in Edmonton

- 1 x Mech Brigade in Shilo.

- CCSB - In whatever capacity it is right now.....

Draw what you need for MNB-LVA from these 3 and grab Atts and Dets from the other 2 non-training Divs.

2 Cdn Div - Specialized Forces

- 1x Light Infantry Brigade in Petawawa - Support to SOFCOM and the GRTF construct.

- 1x "Boat" Bde in Gagetown. - Support to RCN ops if needed as well as specialize in any potential "island hopping" knowledge we'd need in a Pacific campaign

- 1 x Arctic Warfare Bde in Yellowknife - they will own the AO north of 60, along with CAFATC.

3 Cdn Div - Reserves

- consolidate whatever smorgasbord of CBGs we have now and group them based on geography - i.e. 31, 32, and 33 CBG are now 1st (Ontario) Bde... etc.

- See the exercise above, and do the same with the fragemented Regiments within them. Regimental identities be damned, they can be perpetuated into the new organization. (i.e. Take the Brocks, PWOR, and SDGs and re-roll them as the "St. Lawrence Regiment" and have companies around the area that report to a singular Regimental HQ).

4th Cdn Division - Training

-CTC would collapse into the Div HQ

- CMTC would be split into multiple centrss across the 3 separate Divs and be responsible for any collective trg (thus limiting the Reg/Reserve disparity we currently see)

- Schools report to the Div HQ directly.

- 4 CDSG would be responsible to support provide integral support for th Div.

- ATA is moved into a robust G7 cell within the Army HQ.

Support -

- Each Bde is responsible for their own integral support, minus 4 Div (as detailed above)

 

[McG]

Really we can only support one corp, just convert CJOC into a corp HQ

What does this mean? Are you proposing a Joint Corps for the CAF with everything in it, subordinating CJOC under CA, giving CJOC a new name but changing absolutely nothing, or doing something else?

 

[MilEME09]

What does this mean? Are you proposing a Joint Corps for the CAF with everything in it, subordinating CJOC under CA, giving CJOC a new name but changing absolutely nothing, or doing something else?

Army with RCAF attachments/ coordination and move RCN command to a seperate entity.

 

[McG]

Army with RCAF attachments/ coordination and move RCN command to a seperate entity.

You are saying nothing coherent. This is not a 2019 tweet, so you can communicate in sentences to explain whatever is inside your head.

 

[quadrapiper]

Why the Maritimes? They already have most of CCSB and parts of 2 Bde.

BC, on the other hand, has basically zero reg forces army presence. It is a province with a population (read: recruiting base) of of two and a half times that of the Maritimes.

Where will they put the base? If we are hand waving our way into 3.5%, we will hand wave a way to spend some of that money to buy some land.

Buy back/transfer Chilliwack, for starters.

Convince some nation in the Interior to sign some sort of lease or shared use agreement for acres, many for mountain warfare training. Buy outright a smaller but healthy footprint for a permanent presence.

Powell River might be worth looking at, depending what you'd want out of a base: close-ish to the Lower Mainland, one ferry ride from Comox and Esquimalt. Ditto Campbell River. Both of these are former(ish) logging and mill towns, so: adjacent to millions of acres of unpleasant wilderness, much in the hands of the Crown to one degree or another, and potentially (Campbell River less so) a bit below peak capacity.

Planting something substantial near Prince Rupert might also be worth considering.

 

[Fabius]

Infrastructure for existing bases and training facilities

Munitions for all elements

Networks, data links and the associated bearers.

Fill in the equipment capability gaps in the current CAF units and formations.

There will be no additional money once you address those four items.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Buy back/transfer Chilliwack, for starters.

Convince some nation in the Interior to sign some sort of lease or shared use agreement for acres, many for mountain warfare training. Buy outright a smaller but healthy footprint for a permanent presence.

Powell River might be worth looking at, depending what you'd want out of a base: close-ish to the Lower Mainland, one ferry ride from Comox and Esquimalt. Ditto Campbell River. Both of these are former(ish) logging and mill towns, so: adjacent to millions of acres of unpleasant wilderness, much in the hands of the Crown to one degree or another, and potentially (Campbell River less so) a bit below peak capacity.

Planting something substantial near Prince Rupert might also be worth considering.

Or Vernon...

 

[Brad Sallows]

Buy back/transfer Chilliwack, for starters.

Please, no. It's a tiny cantonment area with a few miniscule dry training areas and one rifle range that is or was under review for a templating error, if I understood what was posted in another thread here a while back.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Or Vernon...

Not Vernon, either. Great for an ARTS, but not much else.

@Infanteer's "Merritt" idea or something else in a less populated, mostly range land area which lends itself to a fresh start would be preferable.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not Vernon, either. Great for an ARTS, but not much else.

@Infanteer's "Merritt" idea or something else in a less populated, mostly range land area which lends itself to a fresh start would be preferable.

Prince George... there's a ton of support - from the Cabinet level on down - for a bigger military presence there.

Lots of Crown Land to work with and easy access to ranges in Alberta too, as required.

 

[PrairieFella]

There is the Chilcotin Country. Pretty large maneouvre area in the training area.