Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Stoker]

Brandon, Manitoba, Seeks to Preserve Naval Legacy with HMCS Brandon Acquisition

On August 14, 2025, Brandon Mayor Jeff Fawcett sent a formal inquiry to the Royal Canadian Navy, expressing the city’s interest in acquiring the vessel

readyayeready.com

 

[PrairieFella]

That would be super cool. Between the CATP museum, the RCA museum 20 mins up the road in Shilo and this, thats quite thr collection of military museums in Westman. I wonder if the Assiniboine is deep enough in downtown Brandon to float the Brandon? Pretty shallow river in the height of summer.

 

[Stoker]

That would be super cool. Between the CATP museum, the RCA museum 20 mins up the road in Shilo and this, thats quite thr collection of military museums in Westman. I wonder if the Assiniboine is deep enough in downtown Brandon to float the Brandon? Pretty shallow river in the height of summer.

To disassemble and move the ship to Brandon and reassemble something into something viable would cost as much as building a new ship. Then you would need a population base and tourist to support it, Brandon is too small.

A more practical path: retire and display select components (e.g., anchor, RHIB, a section of hull/plating, bridge console) That gives the community a tangible naval exhibit at a fraction of the cost/complexity—no hull cutting, heavy-haul convoys, or reassembly risk.

 

[Czech_pivo]

To disassemble and move the ship to Brandon and reassemble something into something voable would cost as much as building a new ship. Then you would need a population base and tourist to support it, Brandon is too small.

A more practical path: retire and display select components (e.g., anchor, RHIB, a section of hull/plating, bridge console) That gives the community a tangible naval exhibit at a fraction of the cost/complexity—no hull cutting, heavy-haul convoys, or reassembly risk.

What if you sailed the ship to Thunder Bay and shipped from there to Brandon?

 

[PrairieFella]

What if you sailed the ship to Thunder Bay and shipped from there to Brandon?

Better yet, Thunder Bay to somewhere below the dams on the Winnipeg River, float it to Lake Winnipeg and then down the Red and moor it there, either at the museum in Selkirk or in Winnipeg proper. The Assiniboine would be impassable for it to get to Brandon but it could be doable if they're satisfied by compromising and having it in MB generally. The Red used to be navigable, unsure if it still is or if it could even fit in the Lockport locks. Pipedream and impractical I know, but possible.

 

[Stoker]

What if you sailed the ship to Thunder Bay and shipped from there to Brandon?

First of all the ship can't sail so it would need to be tugged there, that's going to cost a few bucks. Again disassembly, transport and reassembly is cost prohibited. and again the population there can't support such a thing.

 

[Czech_pivo]

First of all the ship can't sail so it would need to be tugged there, that's going to cost a few bucks. Again disassembly, transport and reassembly is cost prohibited. and again the population there can't support such a thing.

Sad that it’s already in a non-sailalbe state

 

[Stoker]

Sad that it’s already in a non-sailalbe state

Once the certifications and statement of structural integrity expires then the ship needs to go into a docking.

 

[lenaitch]

Better yet, Thunder Bay to somewhere below the dams on the Winnipeg River

Pigeon River isn't all that big and I doubt the ship would portage well at Middle Falls or at the Height of Land.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

First of all the ship can't sail so it would need to be tugged there, that's going to cost a few bucks. Again disassembly, transport and reassembly is cost prohibited. and again the population there can't support such a thing.

Canadians think small MV Liemba - Wikipedia

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Come on, Colin! You know it's not the same. Liemba's hull was riveted and she was propelled by a small steam engine and boiler power plant. All things that are easy to disassemble. You just needed riveters and steam plant maintainers at the other hand to put her back together. Just won't work with a ship that is all welds.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Come on, Colin! You know it's not the same. Liemba's hull was riveted and she was propelled by a small steam engine and boiler power plant. All things that are easy to disassemble. You just needed riveters and steam plant maintainers at the other hand to put her back together. Just won't work with a ship that is all welds.

And SS Ollanta - Wikipedia

Overland Transport of German Ships During World War II

The Way to the Black Sea.

www.usni.org

I also know they moved some very large pieces of oil and gas across land in the arctic, but can't find a link.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Going from one ocean with shipyards to another ocean with shipyards, at huge cost, and only for small vessels.

 

[Rainbow1910]

VAdm Topshee recently did an interview with CDR Magazine regarding the Continental Defence Corvette program and gave some interesting information about what he's looking for:

CDR: The Navy has announced it is starting to pay off the MCDV fleet. What do you want to see as a replacement of the MCDV?

VAdm Topshee: The Kingston class has been fantastic since its introduction into service in the 1990s. They've deployed to places no one ever thought they would go. The name gives it away: Maritime Coastal Defence Vessel. They were not supposed to ever go to Hawaii or repeatedly cross the Atlantic. They've proven to be remarkably flexible in what they‘ve done. The problem I face as we look at building the River Class Destroyers to take over the response capability of the main surface combatant from the Halifax class, and we recognize that we've got the Harry DeWolf class that can go up in the north, is there’s a gap between those two. We need something that can deal with most threats that isn’t going to provide air defence or protection to anyone else, but can defend itself in a fight, and is not afraid of ice. So not an icebreaker, but can go to the ice edge and can rip about at speed near ice. That should be consistent with a hull form that still allows it to have a sonar and still allows it to move with enough speed to be relevant as a combatant. It’s basically the same capability set that’s currently in the Halifax class, shrunk down to a smaller package with an ice edge capability, roughly a Polar Class 6. So that’s what we're talking about as a Continental Defence Corvette, and we're working to develop the high-level mandatory requirements for what exactly that would look like. We deliberately chose the name Corvette because we're trying to indicate that it’s a tier of combatant — it definitely can fight, but it’s not the thing that’s the heart of the fleet.

CDR: Would you want it to have a flight deck that would be able to accommodate a Cyclone helicopter?

VAdm Topshee: The Cyclone has been a colossal disappointment. I'm exceptionally disappointed in Lockheed Martin/Sikorsky. | think they‘ve delivered an absolute lemon. It is amazing what the incredible aviators at 12 Wing manage to do with it. The availability, the maintenance, the cost, it all needs to get better — it needs to get drastically better. And for all of those reasons, there’s no world in which | will design a Canadian Continental Defence Corvette to carry a Cyclone helicopter, because there’s no world in which Il see that becoming a useful helicopter, and if that changes, great, but by the time it does, we'll probably be really good at uncrewed and remotely operated systems.

CDR: Thank you, Admiral.

It sounds like the program is undergoing serious feature creep, to the point we're talking about a Halifax class like capability that has an Polar Class 6~ rating. We're getting further and further away from an actual Kingston class replacement in practice and in spirit, and a lot closer to a corvette or frigate. I am concerned we might start undercutting the River class at this rate with a far less capable vessel.

Of interest to @Kirkhill potentially, Vard showcased some renders of what looks to be Vigilance derived unmanned combatants in the recent CDR edition as well.

 

[Kirkhill]

VAdm Topshee recently did an interview with CDR Magazine regarding the Continental Defence Corvette program and gave some interesting information about what he's looking for:



It sounds like the program is undergoing serious feature creep, to the point we're talking about a Halifax class like capability that has an Polar Class 6~ rating. We're getting further and further away from an actual Kingston class replacement in practice and in spirit, and a lot closer to a corvette or frigate. I am concerned we might start undercutting the River class at this rate with a far less capable vessel.

Of interest to @Kirkhill potentially, Vard showcased some renders of what looks to be Vigilance derived unmanned combatants in the recent CDR edition as well.

View attachment 95290

View attachment 95291

That opens up a variant of the same questions the army faces with the uncrewed tanks. Will the uncrewed vessels operate autonomously or in company? If in company will the "supervising" platform be responsible for the operation and maintenance of, potentially, up to four hulls?

That render suggests that a single USV could be carrying up to 48 strike length cells. If all were loaded with ESSMs that is 192 kills. If there were a 3:1 uncrewed:crewed ratio then the flotilla commander could have up to 576 accompanying stowed kills excluding the command ship's own weapons.

And despite what Adm Topshee said about hull mounted sonars how likely is it that sonars will be managed more like self propelled sonobuoys mounted in single purpose small USV/UUV?

 

[Kirkhill]

Come on, Colin! You know it's not the same. Liemba's hull was riveted and she was propelled by a small steam engine and boiler power plant. All things that are easy to disassemble. You just needed riveters and steam plant maintainers at the other hand to put her back together. Just won't work with a ship that is all welds.

That raises a question that has been niggling at me. The Hunt and Sandown class minehunters have been in service since 1978. 28 were built and they still have enough useful life in them to be used by the Estonians, Ukrainians, Romanians and Saudis. They are of comparable tonnage to the Kingstons.

They are made of GRP, Glass Reinforced Plastic.

Why do the USVs have to be built of steel or aluminum? Why not build them like a Seadoo? Or, for that matter, a surfboard? Replace the crew with polystyrene and restore the natural buoyancy lost when we converted from wood to metal.

 

[Maxman1]

VAdm Topshee recently did an interview with CDR Magazine regarding the Continental Defence Corvette program and gave some interesting information about what he's looking for:



It sounds like the program is undergoing serious feature creep, to the point we're talking about a Halifax class like capability that has an Polar Class 6~ rating. We're getting further and further away from an actual Kingston class replacement in practice and in spirit, and a lot closer to a corvette or frigate. I am concerned we might start undercutting the River class at this rate with a far less capable vessel.

Sounds like the Finnish Pohjanmaa class fits. It has ice strengthening equivalent to Polar 7 and Halifax level capability.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Too big, by 3000(ish) tonnes…

 

[Maxman1]

Ice strengthening adds a lot of weight. You can a lightweight vessel, or an ice strengthened vessel, but not a lightweight ice strengthened vessel.

 

[GR66]

Too big, by 3000(ish) tonnes…

It's also a bit too long at 117m.

According to Noah's substack article about an interview with Vice-Admiral Topshee there is a requirement for the length to be in the 104m (+/- a couple of meters) in order to use existing berth space:

The vessels will be no more than 104m in length, maybe a few meters extra if we're pushing it. That has been well established for a while now, as it is the max we can go with the berth space available (without needing to modify or expand anything).

Now, with the more recent commitments to increase defence spending to 2% (+1.5%) of GDP there may be much more appetite to spend money on infrastructure upgrades which may allow for longer vessels. The only issue with larger ships though is that they tend to also come with larger crewing requirements which is problematic.

Personally I'd rather see a little less capability creep and a more conventional Corvette in the sub-100m size and make up for any lost capability with uncrewed sensor USVs/UUVs and uncrewed arsenal ships.