Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

[KevinB]

Britain contracts ‘Tiberius’ ramjet artillery munition

Tiberius Aerospace has announced it has secured a UK Ministry of Defence contract to support the rapid trials and development of its Sceptre ramjet artillery round, a new extended-range precision-guided 155mm munition.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

150 km ramjet round for the Royal Artillery. Tiberius.

Those M777s that you are putting into storage.... GS Regiment with 24 howitzers?
Supplement to the HIMARS?

Better to keep the M777's for the eventual Light Bde.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Reminds me of the .50 /81 MM Mortar system used by USN / USGC .

Forgot about that system, used on their riverine patrol craft

 

[Czech_pivo]

Forgot about that system, used on their riverine patrol craft

Looks like an old East German helmet.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

USN thing with headphones in it to get fire control commands.

To bend that to this thread, I wonder if DRES/DCIM should be experimenting with full face helmets to reduce TBI for gun crews?

 

[Kirkhill]

Better to keep the M777's for the eventual Light Bde.

Some folks consider light forces as part of a strategic reserve - keep in the rear and apply in event of emergency. Having the M777s associated with the light troops a
AND equipped with Tiberius doesn't seem incongruous to me. From deep they can offer General Support. They could also move in Close with the light troops when they are deployed forward.

 

[FJAG]

150 km ramjet round for the Royal Artillery. Tiberius.

Those M777s that you are putting into storage.... GS Regiment with 24 howitzers?
Supplement to the HIMARS?

I think putting them into storage is somewhat dumb. We still have three light battalions. We still have a potential for missions where an FOB is plausible. I'm of the view we need to keep one regiment of three six-gun batteries equipped with M777s. If those batteries need to go to Latvia and we have SPs by then, then its a five day conversion course and they're good to go.

I'm still of the view that we need to distribute at least half of the SPs to the ARes.

The GS function is a question of the div structure we are going to. We have three reg force regiments. one as M777, one as SP, one as LRPR. 4 GS will be too busy with AD and drones and radars to take on a fire unit. That means whatever we intend to do for GS either requires more PY's (the reg force choice - I sense 3 RCHA reforming) or it goes to hybrid 30/70 ARes units. You know where my head is at.

The choice for a GS unit is the SP because it will come with a L/52 calibre barrel while the M777 only has an L/33. Besides that you want better shoot and scoot than the M777 offers. - I like the ramjet idea - cost is the issue and the payload is limited vis-a-vis a rocket.

Some folks consider light forces as part of a strategic reserve - keep in the rear and apply in event of emergency. Having the M777s associated with the light troops a
AND equipped with Tiberius doesn't seem incongruous to me. From deep they can offer General Support. They could also move in Close with the light troops when they are deployed forward.

There are other roles then LSCO that we might deploy on. Having light troops and lighter guns in our hip pockets is a good idea.

You do not EQUIP artillery with ammunition. We SUPPLY ammunition. I agree with having ramjet rounds in our ammo inventory. It doesn't matter what gun its sent down to at the end of the day. I'm reminded though that we never did fire off all of our small supply of Excalibur in Afghanistan.

 

[KevinB]

To bend that to this thread, I wonder if DRES/DCIM should be experimenting with full face helmets to reduce TBI for gun crews?

There is already a few full face systems are part of the Iron Man setup and with IVAS (think HALO Spartans). The problem is they really need to be hooked up to pressured air - as they don’t ventilate well and become very claustrophobic quickly without an air stream.
Not a major issue for vehicle crews (as long as they aren’t expected to be mobile in the vehicle), but for dismounted work no one wants to run a SCBA unless it’s a NBC reason.

 

[Kirkhill]

There is already a few full face systems are part of the Iron Man setup and with IVAS (think HALO Spartans). The problem is they really need to be hooked up to pressured air - as they don’t ventilate well and become very claustrophobic quickly without an air stream.
Not a major issue for vehicle crews (as long as they aren’t expected to be mobile in the vehicle), but for dismounted work no one wants to run a SCBA unless it’s a NBC reason.

Wouldn't the rest of the body be pressurised by the blast in any case? Squeeze the toothpaste in the tube and it all tries to get into the cap.

 

[KevinB]

Wouldn't the rest of the body be pressurised by the blast in any case? Squeeze the toothpaste in the tube and it all tries to get into the cap.

The amount of pressure to cause significant damage to the body is a lot different than the head.

The shockwave from the muzzle blast on large caliber systems (I’m not including the massive naval guns from BB’s of old in that) isn’t going to jelly the body and the exposure time isn’t going to spike anything to have blood pressure issues to the head from the rest of the body.

I’m not a neuroscientist, but generally if you can isolate the head, your are pretty well protected from most over pressure issues from weapon system muzzle blast.

Now blast waves from various explosions from payloads or devices are a totally different thing, as AFV crews hit by IED’s have shown.
Even if you didn’t suffer any noticeable damage at the time (and drove back to the FOB and hadn’t realized that your vehicle got hit) damage can have occurred, and multiple concussions unless allowed to heal have a habit of exponentially increase issues of significant TBI.

So imagine multiple rounds being fired by a 120mm mortar crew, then do that for a few days straight, and it’s a recipe for disaster, as unlike a SPA, or Tank, there isn’t an intervening vehicle between you and the blast.

 

[Kirkhill]

The amount of pressure to cause significant damage to the body is a lot different than the head.

The shockwave from the muzzle blast on large caliber systems (I’m not including the massive naval guns from BB’s of old in that) isn’t going to jelly the body and the exposure time isn’t going to spike anything to have blood pressure issues to the head from the rest of the body.

I’m not a neuroscientist, but generally if you can isolate the head, your are pretty well protected from most over pressure issues from weapon system muzzle blast.

Now blast waves from various explosions from payloads or devices are a totally different thing, as AFV crews hit by IED’s have shown.
Even if you didn’t suffer any noticeable damage at the time (and drove back to the FOB and hadn’t realized that your vehicle got hit) damage can have occurred, and multiple concussions unless allowed to heal have a habit of exponentially increase issues of significant TBI.

So imagine multiple rounds being fired by a 120mm mortar crew, then do that for a few days straight, and it’s a recipe for disaster, as unlike a SPA, or Tank, there isn’t an intervening vehicle between you and the blast.

Isn't there a similar problem with the Carl Gustaf? I seem to remember something like a 6-round limit for a firing crew.