Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Remius]

The CPC haven't been in power for 10 years. "But the Conservatives "isn't germaine here, we're discussing the GOC hitting 2% by FY 25/26.

They were for 10 years before that. The statement you made was “The Liberal Party”. The Carney Liberals are clearly not the Trudeau Liberals.

I agree with you. If we "but the other guy" then we can find all kinds of excuses for the current government to break their promises and no one get held accountable.


How is this different from the Libeal government in 2017's Strong, Secure, Engaged, reaffirming Canada's commitment to hitting 2%

2023 Vilnius Summit.

April 2024 Our North, Strong and Free: A Renewed Vision for Canada’s Defence (which also reiterated plans to accelerate defence investments)


This government is great at cutting cheques; getting the goods is issue.

I see the government ignored their own timing for F35's and now it's when Carney feels like it.

Given that the F35 is now a bargaining chip in a larger game with an unpredictable partner? Changing timing is likely a good idea. Or should we still maintain a timeline that would impact us negatively?

I remember the same "he's so new and committed" energy when Trudeua was was elected.

I don’t remember the same commitment and energy to defence we are seeing here. I think critics like yourself are trying too hard to make Carney into Trudeau.

Are you able to speak to what projects you're currently on and give examples of how you're physically seeing procurement acceleratd?

People said that in 2015.

This isn’t 2015. The moment is significantly different.

It's never difficult to find true believes who just know.


I don't think money flowing was ever the problem. It was transparency, accountability, and results that were missing over the last decade.

Two decades. The last blue bunch were no more transparent, accountable and had just as many missing results.

Limiting this to just the last decade is dishonest.

 

[Kirkhill]

The last time anybody paid any attention to Canadian Defence was 1870.

The Brits left in 1871.

Edit: Sorry, forgot the RN maintained a couple of coaling stations at Esquimalt and Halifax until 1910.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They were for 10 years before that. The statement you made was “The Liberal Party”. The Carney Liberals are clearly not the Trudeau Liberals.

No? That's why they're pushing ahead with the gun confiscation plan just to appease Quebec?

Or the way Carney responded to his MP "joking" about turning a Canadian in to the Chinese embassy?

It's still the same party with a whole bunch of the players. Carney isn't Trudeau and he may be trying to change the party. That's great, but he's surrounded by Trudeu Liberals in a party that's dug trenches around their jobs.

Given that the F35 is now a bargaining chip in a larger game with an unpredictable partner? Changing timing is likely a good idea. Or should we still maintain a timeline that would impact us negatively?

We've been waiting 15 years. We should buy them as soon as possible and start using them or just cancel it and buy something else.

I don’t remember the same commitment and energy to defence we are seeing here. I think critics like yourself are trying too hard to make Carney into Trudeau.

Same over all energy from people who thought Trudeau would be the next Paul Atreides.

Carney is simply picking defence because it's an easy button thanks to Trump. If Harris would have won we wouldn't have seen this defence push regardless of how badly it's needed.

Two decades. The last blue bunch were no more transparent, accountable and had just as many missing results.

Limiting this to just the last decade is dishonest.

The Conservatives were the first to promise to hit 2% in September 2014 I believe. The lost the election a year later. This thread is is about the GOC meeting 2% this Fiscal year. Just because Carney is a new face doesn't mean the Liberal party is some new entity. Same party, same players.

If the Conservatives win the next election we can pick them apart for not meeting their deadlines and promises.

 

[ytz]

I've mostly seen people doing that in favour of the Liberals.

Fair enough. And I remember the era when we supposedly had a pro-military government who were exceptionally tight fisted outside of IORs.

For me politics is neither here nor there. I go by what I see in my corner of the world. And I'm seeing something I've never seen before. If that doesn't jive with somebody else's view, so be it.

 

[Remius]

No? That's why they're pushing ahead with the gun confiscation plan just to appease Quebec?

Or the way Carney responded to his MP "joking" about turning a Canadian in to the Chinese embassy?

It's still the same party with a whole bunch of the players. Carney isn't Trudeau and he may be trying to change the party. That's great, but he's surrounded by Trudeu Liberals in a party that's dug trenches around their jobs.


We've been waiting 15 years. We should buy them as soon as possible and start using them or just cancel it and buy something else.


Same over all energy from people who thought Trudeau would be the next Paul Atreides.

Carney is simply picking defence because it's an easy button thanks to Trump. If Harris would have won we wouldn't have seen this defence push regardless of how badly it's needed.


The Conservatives were the first to promise to hit 2% in September 2014 I believe. The lost the election a year later. This thread is is about the GOC meeting 2% this Fiscal year. Just because Carney is a new face doesn't mean the Liberap party is some new entity. Same party, same players.

If the Conservatives win the next election we can pick them apart for not meeting their deadlines and promises.

You just supported every point I made. I think CPC partisans are just upset that Canada has a conservative leader that isn’t CPC. Even when that leader is doing the things they really also want to see happen.

 

[ytz]

You just supported every point I made. I think CPC partisans are just upset that Canada has a conservative leader that isn’t CPC. Even when that leader is doing the things they really also want to see happen.

I can't understand partisanship. A win is a win. Regardless of where it comes from.

And when issues start being defined in a partisan manner that's when they get lost. If a Liberal can never get credit for defence. Or a Conservative can never get credit for social programs, Then those parties will lose all interest in actually pushing policies outside their core areas. And that's means those issues basically will get ignored half the time.

Kinda seeing that to the south of us these days.

 

[Czech_pivo]

You just supported every point I made. I think CPC partisans are just upset that Canada has a conservative leader that isn’t CPC. Even when that leader is doing the things they really also want to see happen.

Spot on.
If this guy ran as a PC he’d have won.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I can't understand partisanship. A win is a win. Regardless of where it comes from.

And when issues start being defined in a partisan manner that's when they get lost. If a Liberal can never get credit for defence. Or a Conservative can never get credit for social programs, Then those parties will lose all interest in actually pushing policies outside their core areas. And that's means those issues basically will get ignored half the time.

Kinda seeing that to the south of us these days.

I remeber the days when a PC used to get credit for the environment…..

 

[ytz]

Spot on.
If this guy ran as a PC he’d have won.

And people would be praising him saying how great it is that we're finally moving towards 2% and that we have a new agency trying to sort out this procurement mess.

Good ideas are good ideas.

I remeber the days when a PC used to get credit for the environment…..

And I hope we go back to that. Conservative run UK was a cleantech champion that basically converted the whole country to windpower. Something that Nova Scotia's conservative Premier is now trying to emulate.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You just supported every point I made. I think CPC partisans are just upset that Canada has a conservative leader that isn’t CPC. Even when that leader is doing the things they really also want to see happen.

Yeah, I get it. "Just give him time".

We shouldn't dick around purchasing the F35 as some kind of bargaining chip. We need them.

 

[PuckChaser]

Dicking around with the F35 procurement has been a Liberal policy plank since, what, 2008 when Harper announced the original 65 aircraft purchase? I think people have the right to feel skeptical that we'll even get to 2% GDP, let alone this year and even more with kit we actually need instead of trying to pork barrel a non-existent Canadian defense industry in most sectors.

 

[Kirkhill]

Dicking around with the F35 procurement has been a Liberal policy plank since, what, 2008 when Harper announced the original 65 aircraft purchase? I think people have the right to feel skeptical that we'll even get to 2% GDP, let alone this year and even more with kit we actually need instead of trying to pork barrel a non-existent Canadian defense industry in most sectors.

I think you mean since 1997 when Chretien signed on as a development partner.

1997.
28 years ago.
A literal human generation.
Anybody interested in buying a 1997 computer? TV? Car?

 

[Remius]

Dicking around with the F35 procurement has been a Liberal policy plank since, what, 2008 when Harper announced the original 65 aircraft purchase? I think people have the right to feel skeptical that we'll even get to 2% GDP, let alone this year and even more with kit we actually need instead of trying to pork barrel a non-existent Canadian defense industry in most sectors.

It was also a Conservative policy plank when they shelved it themselves and started over.

This is a bi partisan thing since its inception on all things defence. Poor defence spending and neglect is not bound to one party.

 

[Kirkhill]

Per Noah

Canadian Army Capstone Operating Concept - Canada.ca

www.canada.ca

First quick read and first line that grabbed me: another reference to the arctic because of climate change.

I will suggest that technology is of greater importance. With modern technology Franklin could have flown in to any point at any time and spent a couple of hours on the ice with the locals. He wouldn't have got lost in the first place. He wouldn't have needed to sail.

A satellite could have told him what he needed to know about the route.

It isn't the changing environment that is the threat.

It is the technology that makes everything accessible. Even when the environment changes, or possibly even reverts.

 

[Czech_pivo]

And people would be praising him saying how great it is that we're finally moving towards 2% and that we have a new agency trying to sort out this procurement mess.

Good ideas are good ideas.



And I hope we go back to that. Conservative run UK was a cleantech champion that basically converted the whole country to windpower. Something that Nova Scotia's conservative Premier is now trying to emulate.

What I find incredible is that many farmers support the present Conservative Party, who does not have the environment in the fore front of their platform. Farmers are totally part of the environment, it’s in their blood, in their very livelihood but they aren’t acknowledging that climate change is occurring. Their very growing season is increasing here in Canada and their ability to grow new crops is expanding but yet they are pretty much silent on protecting the environment.

Mulroney did so much for the environment for this country but the successors of his party have shat on all of it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think people have the right to feel skeptical that we'll even get to 2% GDP, let alone this year

Yeah it's a little strange how the Liberal government can go from 2% GDP by 2032 (11 July 24) to all of a sudden 2% GDP by 2026 (9 Jun 25).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Poor defence spending and neglect is not bound to one party.

I supose the Liberals could use this as a defence if they don't reach 2% by March 2026. Or if the F35 flops, no subs, no TLav rocket launchers, and no pay raise.

 

[ytz]

Yeah it's a little strange how the Liberal government can go from 2% GDP by 2032 (11 July 24) to all of a sudden 2% GDP by 2026 (9 Jun 25).

What's strange about it? Cut cheques and we get there. Few billion on pay and benefits. Few billion on capital projects like the recent HIMARS buy. Increase Vote 1. And we're there.

And yes, there's probably going to be a bit of creative accounting like booking a lot of the new spending up front. Or rolling in the CCG.

Nevertheless, we get anywhere close (say 1.8%) and that alone would be defence spending this country hasn't seen in more than a generation.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Yeah, I get it. "Just give him time".

We shouldn't dick around purchasing the F35 as some kind of bargaining chip. We need them.

Agree, but the timeline for the first 16 is intact. Nothing is being said by the US that we have jeopardized the remaining planes and their timelines.
Signing last month, this month, next month or in 3 months won’t impact the timelines either.
If it’s 6-9 months out anything has been said, maybe we might.

 

[dapaterson]

Im not asking for leaks @dapaterson and @ytz but with all of the effort to speed things up, can we expect a slew of announcements coming soon?

Yes. But also a shift of mindset from "project" to "capability sustainment" and "capability replacement". Which should mean less bureaucracy and more alacrity.