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New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

  • Thread starter Thread starter GAP
  • Start date Start date
I haven't ever sailed on one, so have no idea, but from the design reviews I was on the concept seemed reasonable for the plant load. The hard part of that is whether or not you get anywhere near it in actual operation, especially when you have major demands like the upper deck heating elements that won't be used at all for most of the actual sailing they are doing, but seem important for in the Arctic (and guess Antarctic). With all the diesel issues they have had, probably take a while of them operating properly to figure out if it actually delivered.

That's the issue the CPFs ran into on the DG load calcs; the actual routine sailing load was higher than one diesel was sized for because of some extra pumps got added on during the design when they ran out of cooling capacity, but way too low for two DGs. But the system was designed so that two DGs could handle the full combat load, including with a full dump from 0 to 100% with a pretty demanding max frequency droop, so the actual engines were oversized for that as well. I can't remember the actual figure, but the actual engines were rated for around 20% more than the generator end, so even in decoking runs the engines themselves weren't running at 100% (but the generator end was).

You get some weird compromises for diesels with combat requirements, but the modern engines are much better at lower loads, and there was some rationalization on the requirements to carry a load dump, so the replacement Cats are a pretty evenly matched DG set. Poking around on the CPFs 30 years in revealed a lot of things in the design intent that were completely different than 'as delivered', so a big LL for CSC was to make sure all the compromises done during design spiral get documented and key things like design intent for the ship reflects the 'as delivered', not the 2015 wishlist.

Anyway, for some kind of diesel-electric plant with combatant requirements, I think you can build in more flexibility and have a few different sized generators to better match the different load situations because you get a lot more variance with also supplying propulsion. A few bigger propulsion DGs and some smaller auxiliary DGs makes a lot more sense, and can still build in some redundancy for combat survivability without going too crazy. MCDVs had no real weapon systems, so 4 identical DAs worked well generally, so the issues were more around the choice of diesels and some other weird design decisions (like salt water coolers in switchboards).
Wait for JSS, where they underestimated the combat load and the hotel load. So there was a lot of teeth gnashing when trying to figure out load shedding for various emergency states (so can we just turn off the CIWS? No you can't it has a baseline enviornmental control load so it doesn't get damp inside or overheat). I was well off the project by the time that was all finalized.

I expect that power and load management will be by far the largest problem on JSS 1.
 
I see Oriole is tucked away safely for her extensive refit in Lunenburg. After which she will relocate to the Great Lakes hopefully forever.
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I absolutely hate this. We retired the MCDVs and kept this deathtrap? Hope some Admiral is happy.
It drives me crazy that we laid up Goose Bay a year after her 5 year refit and they will certainly spend millions on that refit. The last refit after she came from the west Coast was millions after they found significant defects they had to repair.
 
Those two ships don't move and are kept as museums.
I saw the USS Constitution ‘move’ when I lived in Boston around 1999 I think. It moved from its berth in Boston Harbour out into the habour for some event, can’t remember why, but an unexpected thunderstorm came up and the sky turned black, wind came up strong and man did they move that ship back quickly from the open harbour back to it berth tout suite.
 
I was also in Boston when hurricane Bob hit in 1991. We were berthed just forward of her. After we put out the extra hawsers and hurricane hawsers on our own ships (there were two of us), we sent an officer over to offer any extra line handling workforce they may need to her. The offer was declined, with heartfelt thanks but building a lot of goodwill for inter-messes visits the day after the storm.
 
I was also in Boston when hurricane Bob hit in 1991. We were berthed just forward of her. After we put out the extra hawsers and hurricane hawsers on our own ships (there were two of us), we sent an officer over to offer any extra line handling workforce they may need to her. The offer was declined, with heartfelt thanks but building a lot of goodwill for inter-messes visits the day after the storm.
From my desk when I worked for Fidelity I had a front row seat looking directly into Boston Harbour from their World Trade Center facility.
I remember watching one of our old Oberon’s enter into Boston Harbour one fine day, must have been in 1997, maybe 98. The crew was all lined up on deck when the sub entered into the harbour. It was quite a sight.
 
Interesting -


US Navy shipbuilding is ‘a mess.’ South Korean companies think they can help fix it​


“All of our programs are a mess,” US Secretary of the Navy John Phelan told a US House hearing in June.

“I think our best one is six months late and 57% over budget … That is the best one,” Phelan testified

During a CNN visit to the Hyundai and Hanwha shipyards last month, officials explained how South Korea has become a shipbuilding powerhouse that turns out vessels quickly and efficiently.

At the Hanwha yard, officials showed CNN brand-new buildings specially built to service an an order for four frigates from the South Korean navy. The massive building where the hulls will be put together took just 14 months to complete, one official said.

The 122-meter-long, 3,100-ton frigates that will be built there will be formidable, with vertical launch cells for air defense missiles and the ability to launch anti-ship missiles as well as anti-submarine torpedoes.


My comments on the above - 14 months to build the hull of a frigate that will be about double the tonnage of the CDC that is now being discussed....

The average worker in HHI’s workforce of 32,000 has been with the company 16 years, he said.

US shipping expert Sal Mercogliano, a professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, said the fact that Korean shipyards toggle between military and commercial work is a strength.

That allows them to “keep a core group of shipworkers in the yard,” he said, switching between military and commercial projects as new business dictates.

Will never happen here in Canada.

The shipyard can source about 90% of parts and materials it needs from within 50 kilometers (31 miles) of the Geoje shipyard, located on an island at the peninsula’s southern tip, said Hanwha Ocean General Manager Jeon Yu-su.

The efficiency of the Korean shipyards is notable

We brag about how all regions in Canada are brought into the fold for supplies parts/materials needed for the JSS or AOPS, but yet this leads to much higher costs and timelines to deliver a product. It also reduces the 'ownership' in ensuring that the suppliers deliver consistently a quality product. How hard is it to hide from your customer if they are only a 30-45min car ride from you shop vs a 3hr flight, plus time spent going to the airport, waiting at the airport, picking up a rental car and then finally driving to the supplier, plus the dollar cost to do all this.

Hanwha hopes so. Last year it bought Philly Shipyard in Pennsylvania, and earlier this year announced it will pump $5 billion into the facility, looking for commercial and eventually military work.

Read - Read the amount of money Hanwha put into that shipyard, of their own money, to refit 1 shipyard and then think about how much money Seaspan or Irving spent of THEIR own money on their shipyards.
 
Interesting -


US Navy shipbuilding is ‘a mess.’ South Korean companies think they can help fix it​


“All of our programs are a mess,” US Secretary of the Navy John Phelan told a US House hearing in June.

“I think our best one is six months late and 57% over budget … That is the best one,” Phelan testified

During a CNN visit to the Hyundai and Hanwha shipyards last month, officials explained how South Korea has become a shipbuilding powerhouse that turns out vessels quickly and efficiently.

At the Hanwha yard, officials showed CNN brand-new buildings specially built to service an an order for four frigates from the South Korean navy. The massive building where the hulls will be put together took just 14 months to complete, one official said.

The 122-meter-long, 3,100-ton frigates that will be built there will be formidable, with vertical launch cells for air defense missiles and the ability to launch anti-ship missiles as well as anti-submarine torpedoes.


My comments on the above - 14 months to build the hull of a frigate that will be about double the tonnage of the CDC that is now being discussed....

The average worker in HHI’s workforce of 32,000 has been with the company 16 years, he said.

US shipping expert Sal Mercogliano, a professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, said the fact that Korean shipyards toggle between military and commercial work is a strength.

That allows them to “keep a core group of shipworkers in the yard,” he said, switching between military and commercial projects as new business dictates.

Will never happen here in Canada.

The shipyard can source about 90% of parts and materials it needs from within 50 kilometers (31 miles) of the Geoje shipyard, located on an island at the peninsula’s southern tip, said Hanwha Ocean General Manager Jeon Yu-su.

The efficiency of the Korean shipyards is notable

We brag about how all regions in Canada are brought into the fold for supplies parts/materials needed for the JSS or AOPS, but yet this leads to much higher costs and timelines to deliver a product. It also reduces the 'ownership' in ensuring that the suppliers deliver consistently a quality product. How hard is it to hide from your customer if they are only a 30-45min car ride from you shop vs a 3hr flight, plus time spent going to the airport, waiting at the airport, picking up a rental car and then finally driving to the supplier, plus the dollar cost to do all this.

Hanwha hopes so. Last year it bought Philly Shipyard in Pennsylvania, and earlier this year announced it will pump $5 billion into the facility, looking for commercial and eventually military work.

Read - Read the amount of money Hanwha put into that shipyard, of their own money, to refit 1 shipyard and then think about how much money Seaspan or Irving spent of THEIR own money on their shipyards.
The faster we hook ourselves into that ecosystem the better.
 
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