RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's

[KevinB]

Do you think the RCN could be brought into the conversation as well? (Big Honking Ships vs JSS vs Flex Deck RoRo Frigates vs STUFT RoRos fron Marine Atlantic).

Could or Should?

To me the question about support requirements has always been what does the CA want to be when it grows up.
Finally the symmetrical Bde's have been defeated - which was the first step. The SPA, and the Not a Tank vehicle for the tankless Armoured units, as well will the CA move to a tracked IFV for the European theater all will have different requirements to move them.

What does the GoC need from the CAF in those respects.

The Light Infantry Regiment will be an interesting growth item.

I cynically believe that the FlyOver task for the GRTF is solely due to the CAF not having enough equipment to pre-position it, and no ability to move it quickly to Europe from Canada if the need arises -- my understanding is the "Alert" LIB is filling both the NEO and FLyOVer task - and the theory is that if one needs to go, the next unit in the rotation steps up -- the big hole to that theory is if Europe is threatened - odds are some of Russia's allies will get frisky elsewhere to try to spread the support - so the GoC will need to figure out where the priority lies.

 

[Kirkhill]

Could or Should?

To me the question about support requirements has always been what does the CA want to be when it grows up.
Finally the symmetrical Bde's have been defeated - which was the first step. The SPA, and the Not a Tank vehicle for the tankless Armoured units, as well will the CA move to a tracked IFV for the European theater all will have different requirements to move them.

What does the GoC need from the CAF in those respects.

The Light Infantry Regiment will be an interesting growth item.

I cynically believe that the FlyOver task for the GRTF is solely due to the CAF not having enough equipment to pre-position it, and no ability to move it quickly to Europe from Canada if the need arises -- my understanding is the "Alert" LIB is filling both the NEO and FLyOVer task - and the theory is that if one needs to go, the next unit in the rotation steps up -- the big hole to that theory is if Europe is threatened - odds are some of Russia's allies will get frisky elsewhere to try to spread the support - so the GoC will need to figure out where the priority lies.

Unless the Government says "Sorry, we are fully committed. We would love to help, but we just can't".

 

[KevinB]

Unless the Government says "Sorry, we are fully committed. We would love to help, but we just can't".

The problem is the GoC very very very rarely says that. So you get 10 dudes on an airfield in Africa waiting for the next chalk in 6 days to arrive...

 

[Kirkhill]

The problem is the GoC very very very rarely says that. So you get 10 dudes on an airfield in Africa waiting for the next chalk in 6 days to arrive...

Yes, but those 10 dudes show willing, and prevent the deployment of a Brigade to Iraq.

 

[KevinB]

Yes, but those 10 dudes show willing, and prevent the deployment of a Brigade to Iraq.

LOL. This was in the 1994-1995 time frame so just Canada's attempt to do something in the world post Somalia.

 

[Kirkhill]

Meanwhile here is another one for you two to debate @KevinB and @ytz

It even has Space overtones.....

Arc Orbital Supply Capsule Aims To Put Military Supplies Anywhere On Earth Within An Hour

Deorbiting small cargo-laden spacecraft on demand to troops in need is the vision of Inversion Space and its Arc spacecraft. The U.S. military has a longstanding interest in concepts for transporting cargo payloads around the globe very rapidly.

www.twz.com

Now the real question is - how many troopers that dropship carry?

 

[KevinB]

Meanwhile here is another one for you two to debate @KevinB and @ytz

It even has Space overtones.....

Arc Orbital Supply Capsule Aims To Put Military Supplies Anywhere On Earth Within An Hour

Deorbiting small cargo-laden spacecraft on demand to troops in need is the vision of Inversion Space and its Arc spacecraft. The U.S. military has a longstanding interest in concepts for transporting cargo payloads around the globe very rapidly.

www.twz.com

Now the real question is - how many troopers that dropship carry?

It is a very interesting field - the concept isn't new - but the ARC is a specific small specialized cargo system - but others are looking at non orbital stationed items.

I know enough to know that the ARC loitering orbital drop ship won't work for humans (unless you tied it into a ISS type thing for crew habitat) and that seems to be a really poor way to have a contingency force sitting in orbit for years. The rest I am totally clueless on.

I suspect the cost would make those 20 C-17 look cheap though...

 

[lenaitch]

So supply needs identified, loaded, launched a delivered in an hour. If it is late is the pizza free?

How many troops? Seeing as it is 8' x 4' I would guess one, and unless it has life support, possibly dead.

 

[GK .Dundas]

No, I think we should trust Elon, go into a prepaid firm contract for at least 100 Srarships configured point to point, and train our QRF to withstand reentey Gs. By may calculation a point to point Starship should be able to carry 2 Leapord 2s.

One Starship per company of troops = 6
4 LAV-6’a per Starship = 20
2 Leopards per Srarship = 9
A bunch of trucks = 20
Some gas in jerrycans = 20
Food and beer = 15
Bullets = 10

Edited to add: would used starships make a suitable replacement for mod tents?

You should be aware that in mid 1960s the USMC conducted an absolutely serious study on doing what you joking about.

 

[GK .Dundas]

LOL. This was in the 1994-1995 time frame so just Canada's attempt to do something in the world post Somalia.

Sure as hell wasn't funny for the troops that NDHQ sent without bothering to inform the locals.
Who promptly roughed them up and promised to do a lot worse to them .

 

[Fabius]

Interestingly on the topic of high readiness forces, CANSOFCOM is frustrated by being the GoCs first answer to developing problems, the Army is frustrated by CANSOFCOM being the first response.
Yet the Army seems unable to breakthrough certain policy challenges that inhibit NTM and NTE.
Items such as:
CJOC and the Army being unable to agree on simply deploying formed pre existing sub units and units vs bespoke CFTPO bricks.
Health services being unable to DAG units for deployment unless there’s a CFTPO msg for each deploying pers.
Command relationships between the 3rd Battalions and their supporting elements both inside and outside the Army. Something the new Light Infantry Regiment might actually make worse not better in the short to medium term.

Despite all that most of the challenges with a US style GRTF NTM and NTE is that at the GoC Cabinet level, Ministerial level and CDS/ SJS levels Canada, collectively doesn’t make decisions on those rapid timelines.

 

[Kirkhill]

You should be aware that in mid 1960s the USMC conducted an absolutely serious study on doing what you joking about.

Jerry Pournelle wasn't involved in that by any chance?

 

[GK .Dundas]

Jerry Pournelle wasn't involved in that by any chance?

Strangely enough, no .

 

[PuckChaser]

We've known about REASSURANCE 26-01 for more than 6 months, and CJOC was changing deployment training requirements in October and the Bde is still chasing the 15 DLN courses. We are not a serious military.

 

[ytz]

Interestingly on the topic of high readiness forces, CANSOFCOM is frustrated by being the GoCs first answer to developing problems, the Army is frustrated by CANSOFCOM being the first response.
Yet the Army seems unable to breakthrough certain policy challenges that inhibit NTM and NTE.
Items such as:
CJOC and the Army being unable to agree on simply deploying formed pre existing sub units and units vs bespoke CFTPO bricks.
Health services being unable to DAG units for deployment unless there’s a CFTPO msg for each deploying pers.
Command relationships between the 3rd Battalions and their supporting elements both inside and outside the Army. Something the new Light Infantry Regiment might actually make worse not better in the short to medium term.

Despite all that most of the challenges with a US style GRTF NTM and NTE is that at the GoC Cabinet level, Ministerial level and CDS/ SJS levels Canada, collectively doesn’t make decisions on those rapid timelines.

I really hope the new NDHQ reorg fixes this.

SOF, Space and Int subordinated to CJOC. Health, Log, MPs subordinated to the new Joint Forces Command.

In theory (yes I know) this should actually address a lot of your complaints here. The government will have one desk to call up when they want force employment: CJOC.