The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Quirky]

This whole thing is lunacy. Stop playing politics and commit to the remaining F35s.

The Gripen will never take off in Canada. The only people who want are politicians, especially Joly who's hell bent on a few thousand temporary jobs for Quebec.

Huge waste of money and effort for that role, adopting an actual training aircraft like the T-7 or T-50 would make far more sense.

It's likely going to be the PC-21, like the Aussie demo team, as the facilities and heavy maintenance for the aircraft will already be in Moose Jaw with CAE/Skyline.

 

[Furniture]

The elephant in the room is still, in my opinion, the ITAR implications of the GE F414 engines.

If America went with the nuclear option, and blocked sales to their NORAD and NATO ally, it would be the end of sales to anyone who had other options.

We'd be dumb to buy the F-35 if they played that game.

 

[PuckChaser]

I'm still really confused at why we're talking about buying an aircraft that already lost a Canadian competition, and many more internationally. Then again, that is the Canadian way: substandard kit, obsolete kit.

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm still really confused at why we're talking about buying an aircraft that already lost a Canadian competition, and many more internationally. Then again, that is the Canadian way: substandard kit, obsolete kit.

The Ross Rifle enters the chat..,

 

[Rainbow1910]

I'm still really confused at why we're talking about buying an aircraft that already lost a Canadian competition, and many more internationally. Then again, that is the Canadian way: substandard kit, obsolete kit.

Dangling of domestic jobs in front of a Canadian politician is akin to doing the same with a big juicy steak and a hungry dog.

 

[Baz]

Seems like actual pilots and RCAF officers support F35 enough to sign a letter to decision makers to get them to stop this Gripen madness.

Former Canadian military officers urge Ottawa to ignore Gripens and proceed with F-35 buy

Twelve retired senior Royal Canadian Air Force officers have written to Prime Minister Mark Carney warning against reducing Canada's planned 88-aircraft F-35A purchase in favour of Swedish Saab Gripen fighters, as political tensions with the USA prompt Ottawa to reconsider its fighter...

www.flightglobal.com

A letter from a bunch of ex Generals does not necessarily represent what’s best for Canada or the RCAF. The mere fact that they wrote it means they are playing the game and know how to.

I think I agree with them (the actual content isn’t available as far as I know) based on what my understanding of Canada’s foreign and defence policy, but that doesn’t make my opinion what’s best for Canada or the RCAF either. MH types have a historical bias against the amount of resources fighters get…

 

[Remius]

I'm still really confused at why we're talking about buying an aircraft that already lost a Canadian competition, and many more internationally. Then again, that is the Canadian way: substandard kit, obsolete kit.

I’d argue we get substandard kit because of the way competitions are run to begin with.

 

[Remius]

A letter from a bunch of ex Generals does not necessarily represent what’s best for Canada or the RCAF. The mere fact that they wrote it means they are playing the game and know how to.

I think I agree with them (the actual content isn’t available as far as I know) based on what my understanding of Canada’s foreign and defence policy, but that doesn’t make my opinion what’s best for Canada or the RCAF either. MH types have a historical bias against the amount of resources fighters get…

Given that they all mostly have had a part in our current state of affairs? Agreed.

 

[PuckChaser]

I’d argue we get substandard kit because of the way competitions are run to begin with.

IRB weighting will always screw us.

 

[ytz]

Add replacements for the Snowbirds and it may look like 30 Gripen 2 seaters E max? Definitely not in any way an F35 replacement but potentially a very good Hawk and Tutor replacement.

Truly insanity for Canada to use a > $100M fighter as an air show plane.

 

[ytz]

I'm not sure I follow. If we want a light fighter for low cost, low intensity missions, there are other options. There's a light attack version of the Harvard, the AT-6 Wolverine, and the T-7 and T-50 both have light attack versions.

All of this can be done by drones or CCAs for half the cost and man hours.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

The Ross Rifle enters the chat..,

It was more accurate and had a longer range then the Lee-Enfield; Which was why snipers used them!

 

[calculus]

If America went with the nuclear option, and blocked sales to their NORAD and NATO ally, it would be the end of sales to anyone who had other options.

We'd be dumb to buy the F-35 if they played that game.

Under more normal conditions (non-Trump administration) I'd agree. However, given the F35 is the clearly superior airplane, and won the competition already once against the Gripen, on all criteria from my understanding, even if the Americans choose to exercise the ITAR restriction on those engines, thus taking the Gripen out of contention, the F35 still the best option for Canada, militarily.

 

[Rifleman62]

As a reminder the government paid for the establishment of an automobile manufacturing plant for Bombardier to assemble the ILTIS.

Volkswagen announced the construction of a C$100 million plant to be constructed after Bombardier received the rights to manufacture the Iltis in Canada. Volkswagen picked Barrie, Ontario, at first, but agreed to allow the vehicles to be constructed in Valcourt, Quebec, instead. (I wonder why)

 

[OldSolduer]

B

It was more accurate and had a longer range then the Lee-Enfield; Which was why snipers used them!

It was useless in the trenches where mud and dirt caused stoppages. Thanks to feckless Canadian politicians.

 

[MilEME09]

B

It was useless in the trenches where mud and dirt caused stoppages. Thanks to feckless Canadian politicians.

That's because we over engineered it, its tolerances were too tight so the moment it got dirty, it stopped working. Fantastic for a sniper rifle where you can keep it clean, but because we made such a refined, and mechanically accurate master piece of engineering, a battle rifle it was not.

In topic news, i see we are at the threatening stage of this debate, I have to say for it to get this far, America must be very worried we will go Gripen, then again, they have been losing sales left right and center, so LockMart lobbyists might be screaming at them to do something.


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[Colin Parkinson]

B

It was useless in the trenches where mud and dirt caused stoppages. Thanks to feckless Canadian politicians.

A lot of the issues were apparently crappy out of spec British ammunition.

 

[Remius]

That's because we over engineered it, its tolerances were too tight so the moment it got dirty, it stopped working. Fantastic for a sniper rifle where you can keep it clean, but because we made such a refined, and mechanically accurate master piece of engineering, a battle rifle it was not.

In topic news, i see we are at the threatening stage of this debate, I have to say for it to get this far, America must be very worried we will go Gripen, then again, they have been losing sales left right and center, so LockMart lobbyists might be screaming at them to do something.

View attachment 96853
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The US is worried about losing aerospace industry dominance.

Abandoning soft power, exiting the free world stage leadership and preferring transactional diplomacy will lead to that.