2025 U.S. - Venezuela conflict

[OldSolduer]

Today has been full of fairly disturbing news, this is just another.

Hegseth order on first Caribbean boat strike, officials say: Kill them all​

Archive

Why do we care, they're drug runners. Play by the sword, die by the sword.

Not surprising and honestly its tantamount to murder. While "killing them all" may resonate with the common person on the streets of the USA what message does this send to the rest of us?

The USA for the last 250 years was the leading nation for civil rights. Indeed, a lot of the rights we see were pioneered by people like MLK Jr, JFK, RFK and LBJ.

No due process. "Kill them all". This is what dictators and rogue nations do. Not democracies.

 

[brihard]

Is it go time?

View attachment 96981

Great. Do Trump tweets count as NOTAMs now?

 

[Rifleman62]

“I don’t know about that drug stuff but he’s been treated very badly. And he says really nice things about me.”

Stroke the ego.

Does he speak like that so Americans can understand him or is he a simpleton?

 

[OldSolduer]

Stroke the ego.

Does he speak like that so Americans can understand him or is he a simpleton?

I would say he's a simpleton at this point. I do think there is a mental issue with him....

 

[Remius]

Not surprising and honestly its tantamount to murder. While "killing them all" may resonate with the common person on the streets of the USA what message does this send to the rest of us?

A bad message,

The USA for the last 250 years was the leading nation for civil rights. Indeed, a lot of the rights we see were pioneered by people like MLK Jr, JFK, RFK and LBJ.

No it wasn’t. A lot of other countries were already way ahead of the US on all of those things. Universal suffrage for example wouldn’t be official until 1965. And official segregation didn’t end until that year as well. And if you look at things like slavery lasting quite sometime longer than other western nations, Jim Crow laws after etc etc, refusal to sanction South Africa apartheid, the last 250 years of the US does not exactly place them as a “leading” nation for civil rights.

No due process. "Kill them all". This is what dictators and rogue nations do. Not democracies.

For sure.

 

[OldSolduer]

No it wasn’t. A lot of other countries were already way ahead of the US on all of those things. Universal suffrage for example wouldn’t be official until 1965. And official segregation didn’t end until that year as well. And if you look at things like slavery lasting quite sometime longer than other western nations, Jim Crow laws after etc etc, refusal to sanction South Africa apartheid, the last 250 years of the US does not exactly place them as a “leading” nation for civil rights.

Got me on that one for sure BUT the publicity sure didn't hurt.

 

[lenaitch]

Why do we care, they're drug runners. Play by the sword, die by the sword.

Because a civil society is supposed to be better than that?

 

[YZT580]

Because a civil society is supposed to be better than that?

are we too civilized? A boat full of drugs has the potential for killing a lot of people and those it doesn't kill it entraps. As far as I know it isn't legal to stop a boat in international waters yet the open sea is the only real place where you can locate and stop them so what are your options? Bombing them is murder and stopping them and sinking their boats is illegal so you can't incarcerate them> Let them go to hijack another boat and do it again?

 

[HavokFour]

Something is brewing.

In surprise move, head of US military for Latin America to step down

There was tension between Admiral Alvin Holsey and Pete Hegseth, a source said.

www.reuters.com

Today has been full of fairly disturbing news, this is just another.

Hegseth order on first Caribbean boat strike, officials say: Kill them all​

Archive

Putting the puzzle pieces together, I think we may have the reason for him leaving 2 years early. Coincidentally, the US also started rescuing survivors after that September 2nd strike.

 

[dapaterson]

Great. Do Trump tweets count as NOTAMs now?

Notice Of Trump Acting Mad?

 

[Remius]

Putting the puzzle pieces together, I think we may have the reason for him leaving 2 years early. Coincidentally, the US also started rescuing survivors after that September 2nd strike.

He’ll get a pardon regardless.

 

[lenaitch]

are we too civilized? A boat full of drugs has the potential for killing a lot of people and those it doesn't kill it entraps. As far as I know it isn't legal to stop a boat in international waters yet the open sea is the only real place where you can locate and stop them so what are your options? Bombing them is murder and stopping them and sinking their boats is illegal so you can't incarcerate them> Let them go to hijack another boat and do it again?

So where is the line? Gunning down the occupants of a van full of drugs on the side of the 401?

The US seems to have assumed the authority to stop boats on the high seas. They could just as easily enact a law that give them jurisdiction to arrest, try and imprison them on US soil. It wouldn't really be legal in the normally accepted sense but they generally don't care and aren't bound by international law (except when it favours them).

 

[HavokFour]

are we too civilized? A boat full of drugs has the potential for killing a lot of people and those it doesn't kill it entraps. As far as I know it isn't legal to stop a boat in international waters yet the open sea is the only real place where you can locate and stop them so what are your options? Bombing them is murder and stopping them and sinking their boats is illegal so you can't incarcerate them> Let them go to hijack another boat and do it again?

You missed the part about ensuring there are no survivors (witnesses), after the fact. And there still isn't any evidence that these are all drug boats. In fact one was in fact a gas smuggler as mentioned a few posts back.

This is all too eerily similar.

The Peleus War Crimes Trial

After sinking the Greek steamer Peleus in 1944, the captain ordered his crew to attack the survivors, three sailors survived and faced their attackers in a war crime trial.

www.usni.org

Archive

 

[KevinB]

So where is the line? Gunning down the occupants of a van full of drugs on the side of the 401?

The US seems to have assumed the authority to stop boats on the high seas. They could just as easily enact a law that give them jurisdiction to arrest, try and imprison them on US soil. It wouldn't really be legal in the normally accepted sense but they generally don't care and aren't bound by international law (except when it favours them).

The USN isn’t the only Navy that conducts VBSS (Visit, Board, Search, Seize) in international waters, or even other countries waters.

The issue isn’t boarding, it’s the entirely without warning lethal strikes that are the issue here.

PH’s incredibly stupid actions are just the cherry on top.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Because a civil society is supposed to be better than that?

That's a lie you've been taught. IMHO.

Just like violence never solves problems.

 

[OldSolduer]

are we too civilized?

I would argue yes we are. And far too tolerant of doctrines that preach hate and subjugation - and you know who I speak of.

As for how we deal with people like this its simple - but not meant for this particular thread.

 

[Remius]

That's a lie you've been taught. IMHO.

Just like violence never solves problems.

Ok, so in your opinion western society doesn’t have to be better than our enemies or opponents.

Question.

How would you handle survivors that are no longer a threat. Wounded? Still alive? Helpless?

If we accept that extra judiciary killings of criminals or suspected criminals are justified then are we accepting shifting from the norms of the LOAC?

How would you react to an order telling you to finish them off?

 

[PrairieFella]

That's a lie you've been taught. IMHO.

Just like violence never solves problems.

We should just follow the orders right?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

We should just follow the orders right?

The US has signed and ratified the Geneva Conventions but they have not ratified protocols 1,2 & 4.

Some of these issues, as far as they are concerned, are non-issues.

Ditto UNCLOS. The United States is a non-party to the Law of Sea.


The debate about whether orders were lawful or not need to be entirely contextualized on what the accepted US stance is on issues.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Some indications that the American plan on staying in the Caribbean for the long term.

U.S. Military Documents Indicate Plans to Keep Troops in Caribbean Through 2028

As rumors of a U.S. war on Venezuela swirl, military documents show plans to feed a buildup of troops in the region for years.

theintercept.com