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Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

Mate, I'm so old that my first flight in the military (also first flight ever) was on a Yukon cross country shuttle. Add in Cosmos and the 707 shuttle. Had a short flight in a DC-3 out of Winnipeg once - an engine quit just after takeoff so quick turn around to land. Buffalos and Hercs. Once in a Tracker and once in the backseat of an F-5 on my FAC course. For helicopters the Kiowa, Huey and Voyageurs - a lot in the latter two.

Lot of air time for a mud gunner.

Edit - I actually have to correct that. My first and second flights ever were as a reservist in the back of a Herc. The Yukon was my first flight in the RegF and therefore my third flight.

:giggle:
Did the "Milk Runs" on the 707's several times to go to Shilo, Germany and Nova Scotia. RCAF box lunches were to die for and put modern airline food to shame. Watching the guys bound for detention in Edmonton, get less and less cocky as we got closer and white faced as they got off on their final stop. Finding a loaded pistol in the washroom of the AMU that some young officer with briefcase handcuffed to his wrist had forgotten was fun.
 
Did the "Milk Runs" on the 707's several times to go to Shilo, Germany and Nova Scotia. RCAF box lunches were to die for and put modern airline food to shame. Watching the guys bound for detention in Edmonton, get less and less cocky as we got closer and white faced as they got off on their final stop. Finding a loaded pistol in the washroom of the AMU that some young officer with briefcase handcuffed to his wrist had forgotten was fun.
Conversely, the eastbound flights would often arrive in Ottawa full of recruits on their way to Greenwood.

Flew from Lahr to Cyprus on vacation a couple of times as well.

Those 707s did yeoman's work.
 
I can't say that I've heard that nickname before - were those the Labradors - the Navy version of the Voyageur?


I can't say that I've experienced much in the way of scheduling issues during my days. The service was Spartan but pretty decent. Priority 5 flying was always a bit of a risk especially for us army guys. Living in Shilo or Petawawa it was always a bit of a risk if you got bumped. Catching an alternate civilian flight was dreadfully expensive in those days. Airfares would make your eyes water. (Long distance telephone as well) I usually drove home for the Christmas and summer holidays - Once over the Lakehead in winter and thereafter through Chicago and Detroit.

I really can't complain about the RCAF in those days. They were pretty accommodating. When I was in Kingston for my command and staff course the Nav school in Winnipeg flew a Herc down to us to take all the western folks from Manitoba and Alberta home and back for the Thanksgiving weekend. Their box lunches were always better too. :giggle:

🍻
Albatross Grumman HU-16. Last amphibious aircraft operated by Canada if you don't count the Otters on floats. We disposed of them around 1970 if I recall correctly. They were based in Trenton, Victoria that I know for sure.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I seem to recall the Priority 5 was also very egalitarian since it was based on time in rather than rank.

The RCAF did very well by my Dad over the years, right from the start of his post war career. He spent the summer of 1950 at Longue Pointe in COTC, but was due back in Calgary to get married at the end of August. Unfortunately there was a massive rail strike. Made it though thanks to the RCAF flying him out of St. Hubert. When he was first posted to Winnipeg and we were stuck in Ottawa for most of the first year trying to sell out house, he managed many a weekend home flying the back of, I believe, Expeditors.
A friend of mine's Dad was flying an Expediter over to Summerside from Shearwater one day and they had to turn back for "an at home emergency". When he rushed in the door his wife was stranded on a kitchen chair avoiding a mouse. Don't know what he told the mess .
 
Noah is out with his latest weekly "This Week in Defence" subtitled "Special Army Rumor Edition." The first rumour is that the Leopard Extension Program is dead and that Canada is going for a new tank with IOC around 2033 and costing approximately $10 Billion CAD.

The second one was that for the MEDCAV Program the three leading contenders are the South Korean AS21 Redback, Germany's KF41 Lynx, and Sweden's CV-90 with the Redback and CV-90 top contenders.

Lots of other stuff in the newsletter, but those were the two that caught my eye. Full report can be found here:

 
Albatross Grumman HU-16. Last amphibious aircraft operated by Canada if you don't count the Otters on floats. We disposed of them around 1970 if I recall correctly. They were based in Trenton, Victoria that I know for sure.
Haiti24.jpg


Nice. Didn't know we had those.

🍻
 
Noah is out with his latest weekly "This Week in Defence" subtitled "Special Army Rumor Edition." The first rumour is that the Leopard Extension Program is dead and that Canada is going for a new tank with IOC around 2033 and costing approximately $10 Billion CAD.

The second one was that for the MEDCAV Program the three leading contenders are the South Korean AS21 Redback, Germany's KF41 Lynx, and Sweden's CV-90 with the Redback and CV-90 top contenders.

Lots of other stuff in the newsletter, but those were the two that caught my eye. Full report can be found here:

probably saw this and said yes please

 
Noah is out with his latest weekly "This Week in Defence" subtitled "Special Army Rumor Edition." The first rumour is that the Leopard Extension Program is dead and that Canada is going for a new tank with IOC around 2033 and costing approximately $10 Billion CAD.

The second one was that for the MEDCAV Program the three leading contenders are the South Korean AS21 Redback, Germany's KF41 Lynx, and Sweden's CV-90 with the Redback and CV-90 top contenders.

Lots of other stuff in the newsletter, but those were the two that caught my eye. Full report can be found here:

 
Noah is out with his latest weekly "This Week in Defence" subtitled "Special Army Rumor Edition." The first rumour is that the Leopard Extension Program is dead and that Canada is going for a new tank with IOC around 2033 and costing approximately $10 Billion CAD.

The second one was that for the MEDCAV Program the three leading contenders are the South Korean AS21 Redback, Germany's KF41 Lynx, and Sweden's CV-90 with the Redback and CV-90 top contenders.

Lots of other stuff in the newsletter, but those were the two that caught my eye. Full report can be found here:

So hot
 
Going to be way harder to buy American now.....
Honestly Id rather see German or Korean. We're going to be using our tanks in E Europe where it will be far easier to sustain Leopards or K2s since there are factories right there in Germany and Poland respectively. Abrams homefront logistics are irrelevant since we get to the point where we're using tanks instead of ships, satellites and planes to defend the homeland, we have some major fucking problems.
 
I will believe that when or if DJT and Republicans lose.
Trump will be gone in three years, and seems to have shut up about a third term. And he's almost 80 anyway. And once Trump leaves, MAGA fades away, like basically all such political movements built around one person.
 
Honestly Id rather see German or Korean. We're going to be using our tanks in E Europe where it will be far easier to sustain Leopards or K2s since there are factories right there in Germany and Poland respectively. Abrams homefront logistics are irrelevant since we get to the point where we're using tanks instead of ships, satellites and planes to defend the homeland, we have some major fucking problems.
We already have Leopard 2s in Latvia, and found have it doesn't work like that. They have to send parts to the Canadian subsidiary, who releases them to the CAF.
 
We already have Leopard 2s in Latvia, and found have it doesn't work like that. They have to send parts to the Canadian subsidiary, who releases them to the CAF.
That is a 100% self inflicted problem, God didn't descend from Heaven and mandate it, and we can solve it any time we wanted to.

I like the continuous production of LAV rumours, I'd go so far as to extend that to tanks too. Build a few dozen gun tanks and support vehicles a year with surge capacity in the factory keep it running for decades to come and build up an actual reserve of vehicles as newer models keep rolling off the line. Others have said the same thing about support vehicles and they should also be included. We'd have to incur some costs to build out storage facilities and some personnel to keep them in condition that they can be easily returned to service, but that's a lot cheaper than kicking off WW3 without having enough equipment for day to day peacetime requirements or the industrial base to rapidly ramp up production. Gives us a place to park some of our expanded funding while we ramp up recruitment and training.

Rough math:
100 x LAVs a year (estimating $6 million a piece based on ACSV price of $4.2 million in 2020)
36 x Tanks (Based on Korean numbers form 2009 it would be about $15 million a unit for K2s, almost certainly higher for Leopards or Abrams, let's go with $20 million)

20 years of continuous production:
2000 LAVs
720 Tank Hulls (gun tanks and support vehicles)
$1.3 billion a year for several thousand armoured vehicles, donating/selling/storingg our existing vehicles where appropriate, as we'd likely keep most or all our LAVs and ACSVs which are around what, 800 ish vehicles?, so about 2800 LAVs and 720 tanks to full equip deployed troops, units at home, schools, and a war reserve. Back of the napkin math it's about 2% of the total defence spending this year to support a robust defence industrial base.

Partner with South Korea and Poland for a complete AFV renewal - AS21, K2, K9s, and we can share R&D costs, spare parts, and have distributed manufacturing for both the Pacific and Europe. See if they can throw in a Hyundai/Kia factory to help make up some of the auto manufacturing while we're at it.

The army's modernization efforts going forward should focus heavily on building out our industrial base and training capacity (facilities, simulators, ensuring reservists are trained on current service systems, ammunition. It's an easy sell to the public to keep up support for defence spending when the current mood becomes old news and the public loses interest.

@FJAG maybe you should hold off on further revisions to Unsustainable At Any Price and do a defence industry equivalent.
 
We'd have to incur some costs to build out storage facilities and some personnel to keep them in condition that they can be easily returned to service, but that's a lot cheaper than kicking off WW3 without having enough equipment for day to day peacetime requirements or the industrial base to rapidly ramp up production. Gives us a place to park some of our expanded funding while we ramp up recruitment and training.
I think the Germans tried to do this for their tank inventory and it failed. The ones at the back never got started and ended up being used as a source for spare parts for the ones at the front.
 
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