Canadian River Class Destroyer Megathread

[Underway]

We have raised a couple of generations now, to emote, to express their feelings. A phlegmatic response that emphasised rational debate and logic has been discouraged since Kirk and McCoy mocked Spock.

Today our entire discourse is wrapped around not hurting people's feelings. Or appealing to their feelings.

We are great at ginning up flash mobs on a moment's notice.

This isn't new. The boomers are still the largest voting block and they happily were outraged like everyone else. And they generally are the one complaining about "soft kids these days" . This isn't generational, its just people being people. Lots of Gingoism in history getting countries into trouble.

 

[Kirkhill]

This isn't new. The boomers are still the largest voting block and they happily were outraged like everyone else. And they generally are the one complaining about "soft kids these days" . This isn't generational, its just people being people. Lots of Gingoism in history getting countries into trouble.

I agree.

The Boomers actively worked to suppress stoicism.
Let it all hang out.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I agree.

The Boomers actively worked to suppress stoicism.
Let it all hang out.

Stoicism isn't being silent about things, and Socrates was kind of infamous for never shutting up.

Really about accepting what you can't change, looking at challenges and setbacks as opportunities for growth, and not living to excess, so lot more in common with mindfulness where you actively monitor and react to how you are feeling, which might include talking about it to peers etc.

Bottling things up and ignoring them is more self-delusion than inner strength, so I think kids talking about their feelings, and not putting up with people being dickheads is a lot healthier compared to alternatives. Took a bit of getting used to, but I think takes a lot more strength of character to confront someone for bad behaviour than it does to ignore them, and kids are a lot more resilient than people give them credit for.

If you want to experience soul crushing frustration, try applying for a job where you apply to a portal, where you have to write half an essay describing your experience, upload a resume that describes your experience, get through AI filters, multiple HR interviews (including stupid questions like 'what is your favourite drink) etc to find out the job pays minimum wage, but you aren't qualified for it anyway as they want a programmer with 5 years experience on a programming language released 3 years ago.

 

[Kirkhill]

Stoicism isn't being silent about things, and Socrates was kind of infamous for never shutting up.

Really about accepting what you can't change, looking at challenges and setbacks as opportunities for growth, and not living to excess, so lot more in common with mindfulness where you actively monitor and react to how you are feeling, which might include talking about it to peers etc.

Bottling things up and ignoring them is more self-delusion than inner strength, so I think kids talking about their feelings, and not putting up with people being dickheads is a lot healthier compared to alternatives. Took a bit of getting used to, but I think takes a lot more strength of character to confront someone for bad behaviour than it does to ignore them, and kids are a lot more resilient than people give them credit for.

If you want to experience soul crushing frustration, try applying for a job where you apply to a portal, where you have to write half an essay describing your experience, upload a resume that describes your experience, get through AI filters, multiple HR interviews (including stupid questions like 'what is your favourite drink) etc to find out the job pays minimum wage, but you aren't qualified for it anyway as they want a programmer with 5 years experience on a programming language released 3 years ago.

Mate you have just described the last 10 years of my life.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Mate you have just described the last 10 years of my life.

That was kind of the first almost 40 years of mine; mindfulness, cognitive behavior therapy, stoicism or whatever you want to call it was a huge relief. Felt like a pressure relief venting on an internal tank I didn't even know existed until it was drained off.

Think that was the bit of my Scottish upbringing that maybe missed a key bit about dealing with things (or they did, who knows).

Not that I'm not ornery anymore, just doesn't build up. As much.... most of the time lol.

 

[Kirkhill]

I was talking about the mindless battle with AI gatekeepers fronting for Inhuman Resources.

Civility demands a degree of stoicism.

 

[Lumber]

With enough time and money, you can make almost anything do anything.

A toaster is just a death ray with a smaller power source.

I don't think a toaster is the best comparison.

Aegis is like a really nice Lego set. Like one of the big pirate ships. It comes as a complete package. If you want something different, you either need to buy a different Lego set, or somehow Jimmy pieces into it that weren't meant for it. Trying asking Lego to simply "add an extra cannon" to the existing design and they'll tell you to screw right off.

CMS-330, on the other hand, is like a Lego a pirate ship made entirely from those large bins of generic pieces you can buy. You can make it as big and complicated or small and simple as you want. Want changes or something added? The bins of available pieces are right there ready for you to customize to your heart's content.

 

[Maxman1]

I don't think a toaster is the best comparison.

 

[Kirkhill]

First of the class powers up for the first time

Huge new British warship powers up for the first time

HMS Glasgow has begun generating her own power, with the Type 26’s diesel generators switched on for the first time.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[NavyShooter]

My Type 26 is progressing well. Needs more sanding, more painting, more sanding...but she's getting there.

I've got a V2 of the print files heading to the printer as I've had a request for one in the CO's office down in Dockyard. We'll see if she can make people jealous!

 

[Underway]

My Type 26 is progressing well. Needs more sanding, more painting, more sanding...but she's getting there.

I've got a V2 of the print files heading to the printer as I've had a request for one in the CO's office down in Dockyard. We'll see if she can make people jealous!

Amazing

 

[Kirkhill]

Type 31 for a Coastal Defence Corvette (too long) or a gutted Type 26 for the last couple of flights?
Or a 107m CDC as a command vessel?

Babcock pitches Type 31 frigate as command platform for uncrewed systems - Navy Lookout

Babcock has unveiled their ARMOR force concept in line with the Royal Navy’s evolution towards a hybrid, fleet. This envisages adaptations of the Type 31 frigate as the Common Command Vessel (CCV) for a networked force of large uncrewed surface vessels and other autonomous assets at range. ARMOR...

www.navylookout.com

 

[FJAG]

Type 31 for a Coastal Defence Corvette (too long) or a gutted Type 26 for the last couple of flights?
Or a 107m CDC as a command vessel?

Babcock pitches Type 31 frigate as command platform for uncrewed systems - Navy Lookout

Babcock has unveiled their ARMOR force concept in line with the Royal Navy’s evolution towards a hybrid, fleet. This envisages adaptations of the Type 31 frigate as the Common Command Vessel (CCV) for a networked force of large uncrewed surface vessels and other autonomous assets at range. ARMOR...

www.navylookout.com

I like the idea of uncrewed ships but I think I'd make it look like a rusty cargo vessel with rusty containers on deck (but a really good power pack) - a la a Q Ship.

 

[Kirkhill]

I like the idea of uncrewed ships but I think I'd make it look like a rusty cargo vessel with rusty containers on deck (but a really good power pack) - a la a Q Ship.

If we want to go that route I would add a few non-descript containers to a cargo ship and a few naval reservists to the crew. Any of these small vessels being considered as USVs and arsenal ships are going to stand out in the middle of the Atlantic by virtue of being small vessels in the middle of the Atlantic.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You know, Kirkhill, you keep putting naval reservists in all sorts of roles and tasks.

What makes you think that, where it takes about four to five years to qualify a regular force sailor/officer to become more useful to a ship than a learning burden on it, a naval reservist, not immersed in naval operations but being trained for a couple of summers, then 15 days holiday, 8 Saturday's and 26 evening a year can get qualified AND take on supplementary high end tasks such as the ones you would have them carry out?

 

[NavyShooter]

The blue hull and the boot topping make a big difference in looks!

 

[NavyShooter]

And I've done up a new display stand that just barely fits on my print bed.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You know, Kirkhill, you keep putting naval reservists in all sorts of roles and tasks.

What makes you think that, where it takes about four to five years to qualify a regular force sailor/officer to become more useful to a ship than a learning burden on it, a naval reservist, not immersed in naval operations but being trained for a couple of summers, then 15 days holiday, 8 Saturday's and 26 evening a year can get qualified AND take on supplementary high end tasks such as the ones you would have them carry out?

As always, had we invested in the Reserves, the Naval Reservist could provide harbour security and route survey/clearance of the port they are nearest. Covering the same area year after year will build local knowledge, and the abilty to pass on the knowledge and skills. A lot of those junior sailors and Officers would cut their teeth on those tasks. then start taking on more as opportunities emerge.

But the CAF is going to also have to accept the realities of a Reservist double life and tailor courses and qualifications to match that reality.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

As always, had we invested in the Reserves, the Naval Reservist could provide harbour security and route survey/clearance of the port they are nearest. Covering the same area year after year will build local knowledge, and the abilty to pass on the knowledge and skills. A lot of those junior sailors and Officers would cut their teeth on those tasks. then start taking on more as opportunities emerge.

But the CAF is going to also have to accept the realities of a Reservist double life and tailor courses and qualifications to match that reality.

We did just that, Colin. And it worked. But the Reg force only saw the "perma-shads" that were running the MCDV's and how they were getting no replacement - so made them either reg force or else - and lost the majority of reservists who were doing part time work BUT were providing harbour defense teams and harbour inspection dive teams. As a result, they decided to go backwards - to what reservists were in the 60's, 70's and early 80's: augmentees ... that could barely qualify for the jobs they are supposed to augment.

 

[Kirkhill]

You know, Kirkhill, you keep putting naval reservists in all sorts of roles and tasks.

What makes you think that, where it takes about four to five years to qualify a regular force sailor/officer to become more useful to a ship than a learning burden on it, a naval reservist, not immersed in naval operations but being trained for a couple of summers, then 15 days holiday, 8 Saturday's and 26 evening a year can get qualified AND take on supplementary high end tasks such as the ones you would have them carry out?

Fair point.

But what other route is there available to cost effectively bring into service the additional sailors necessary to fight a war?
I note that a good chunk of the force at sea in WW2 was RCNVR.

I believe we will need more people at sea. I believe at least some of them can be sailing on container ships manning air defences. I also believe we are going to need more port securiy ashore, afloat and in the air. And all this in addition to covering sealanes, escorting vessels and suppressing submarines.

As to skills transfer, either skills need to be better comparmentalized so they can be transferred in the time available or else the time available needs to be increased.

Some things just need to be done so some way needs to be found.

Even if we increased the Reg force in peacetime so that they could do more longer there would still have to be a system in place to rapidly replace them.

Do I know the answer? No. But I don't think that makes the problem less real.

My effort is to find tasks that civilians can learn to manage at their home stations in a short time.

Port security seems one. Air defence I hope can be another - because we are going to need lots of it ashore and afloat.
Perhaps the people buying the GBAD systems can keep that in mind and buy stuff that conscripts can master. Not because we will be using conscripts but because systems designed for them are most likely to the KISS principle.

Edit: I see you and Colin covered some of this ground.