Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[McG]

IFM is still unfunded and in RFI

Unfunded projects don’t release RFIs. An RFI is usually released when a project is in definition or options analysis. In OA, the project will not yet have access to its funding, but someone will have already done an very rough cost estimate and there will be an allocation in the capital investment fund. In definition, the project is resourced with a project management office that is paid by the project.

 

[dapaterson]

Unfunded projects don’t release RFIs. An RFI is usually released when a project is in definition or options analysis. In OA, the project will not yet have access to its funding, but someone will have already done an very rough cost estimate and there will be an allocation in the capital investment fund. In definition, the project is resourced with a project management office that is paid by the project.

Releasing an RFI without funding? That's a PAD-dling.

Pictured: Marc Rodgers

 

[Rainbow1910]

2) Only the E-7 would meet two important mandatories (AAR + 360 coverage). Globaleye fails both of those. Phoenix fails one of those. If the AAR work is done in time that the ROKAF Phoenix can be certified on the AAR capable frame, it becomes fully compliant with their mandatories. And there's real competition.

I've seen claims that GlobalEye can reach something approaching more coverage with its additional sensors in the blindspots however, I personally have my doubts if those sensors are remotely as comparable to the main arrays.

So I definitely don't see how "the deck is fairly heavily stacked against L3 Harris". I think the AAR work puts them possibly in the lead. As for conversion, it's just not a big deal. L3 can do that work in Canada too. The ability to fit the radar is going to be necessary for maintenance anyway. So any bidder will have to offer that capability as part of their sustainment plan.

Considering L3 Harris is stuck with IAI/ELTA providing their radars for the Phoenix alongside the fact Saab is offering to assist us in setting up a full GlobalEye export capability domestically to take advantage of that platforms increasing popularity abroad, I think GlobalEye definitely had some major advantages over the Phoenix. A combination of domestic workshare with export potential and not being related to Israel in the current political climate are substantial advantages.

 

[Maxman1]

And the E-7 is built on the 737, the most common aircraft in service. So parts are available at every airport in the world. The GlobalEye and Phoenix don't have that.

 

[ytz]

Saab is offering to assist us in setting up a full GlobalEye export capability domestically to take advantage of that platforms increasing popularity abroad,

At the rate Saab is making promises, I gotta wonder what will be left in Sweden. Can't wait for Saab to promise to employ every Canadian.

 

[Rainbow1910]

At the rate Saab is making promises, I gotta wonder what will be left in Sweden. Can't wait for Saab to promise to employ every Canadian.

While I do find their Gripen proposal to be laughable and very nonsensical for Canada, GlobalEye conversion very much is realistic for Canada. As always I question their projected jobs figure, but there is real value in taking this sort of capability on for ourselves and an emerging market abroad.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-saab-build-globaleye-military-surveillance-plane-in-canada/

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Swedish defence company Saab is intensifying its campaign to secure Canadian aircraft sales by offering to build the entire GlobalEye military surveillance plane in Canada if the Department of National Defence orders it.

In an interview at the Saab factory in Linköping, in southern Sweden, David Moden, senior sales director for the GlobalEye, said that building the entire aircraft in Canada would create 3,000 jobs. “We are offering a made-in-Canada solution by building and installing the plane’s sensors there,” he said.

The GlobalEye is based on Bombardier’s 6000-series long-range business jet, which is assembled at Toronto’s Pearson airport. The plane, minus its interior fittings, is flown to Linköping, where it is completely stripped down and rebuilt into an airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) plane with an array of highly sophisticated radar and sensors.

Saab’s offer would see the company transfer the technology to Canada. The jobs created, he said, would include those in aircraft maintenance and development.

This offer comes on top of Saab’s previous pitch to generate 10,000 new Canadian jobs if DND were to buy the Saab Gripen fighter jet, which would be entirely built in Canada. Saab is looking for foreign partners to build the aircraft as new orders arrive because the Linköping factory lacks the capacity to double or triple construction rates.

 

[ytz]

While I do find their Gripen proposal to be laughable and very nonsensical for Canada, GlobalEye conversion very much is realistic for Canada. As always I question their projected jobs figure, but there is real value in taking this sort of capability on for ourselves and an emerging market abroad.

What would be signifcant is them offer to make the radar here. That is not what is on offer. They are offering to simply move the customization here. Bolting on systems and hooking up wiring harnesses is not actually that complicated. I am willing to bet when the RFP goes out L3 and maybe even Boeing might offer some or all of that work in Canada.

 

[FJAG]

Unfunded projects don’t release RFIs. An RFI is usually released when a project is in definition or options analysis. In OA, the project will not yet have access to its funding, but someone will have already done an very rough cost estimate and there will be an allocation in the capital investment fund. In definition, the project is resourced with a project management office that is paid by the project.

Releasing an RFI without funding? That's a PAD-dling.

Sorry. My bad. - I knew that IFM was in options analysis (and for all I know may be in definition by now based on the original timeline that I saw) and had issued an RFI but seem to be behind on knowing that there was an allocation of funds. I thought it was just high on the CCA's priority for "future" funding.

 

[MilEME09]

Sorry. My bad. - I knew that IFM was in options analysis (and for all I know may be in definition by now based on the original timeline that I saw) and had issued an RFI but seem to be behind on knowing that there was an allocation of funds. I thought it was just high on the CCA's priority for "future" funding.

Future funding has thankfully become now funding, IFM is one the big 5 that the army is pushing to accelerate quickly.

 

[Maxman1]

Given the domestic issues E-7 has within the US itself and with NATO/South Korea moving away from the platform for Global based derivatives and what Carney promised within his campaign around a domestic Canadian AEW&C platform, I think E-7 can be pretty handily dismissed from the competition. Between L3 Harris's bid and Saab's bid, I think the deck is fairly heavily stacked against L3 Harris given Saab has promised setting up GlobalEye conversion directly within Canada and international demand for that platform is steadily rising over time.

The "issues" are just Pete Hegseth being a moron and unilaterally canceling the order because he thinks satellites and carrier-borne E-2s are good enough. NATO wants to use the US economy of scale.

South Korea continues to operate the E-7, they're just buying a second platform.

 

[ytz]

NATO wants to use the US economy of scale.

Yeah. But it's not "NATO" so much as a group of countries operating under the NATO umbrella. They won't be ordering the E-7 again. And Globaleye is fine for Europe really. Just not great for us.

South Korea continues to operate the E-7, they're just buying a second platform.

SK has gone out if their way to buy something else citing the reliability and operating cost of the E-7. This is part of the rationale behind using a business jet.

 

[Maxman1]

Yeah. But it's not "NATO" so much as a group of countries operating under the NATO umbrella. They won't be ordering the E-7 again. And Globaleye is fine for Europe really. Just not great for us.

NATO itself does have E-3s that they are planning to replace. The E-7 was the intended replacement.

https://awacs.nato.int/organisation/awacs-fleet-2

NATO countries that operate the E-7 such as UK and Turkey do so separate from NATO.

 

[ytz]

NATO itself does have E-3s that they are planning to replace. The E-7 was the intended replacement.

https://awacs.nato.int/organisation/awacs-fleet-2

NATO countries that operate the E-7 such as UK and Turkey do so separate from NATO.

It's not NATO that operates these. It's a pool of contributors. Just like the NATO C-17 fleet. And with France, Denmark, Finland and Greece set to operate the Globaleye, I think the case for the pooled fleet to be the Globaleye is much stronger than the Wedgetail.

 

[Maxman1]

It's not NATO that operates these. It's a pool of contributors. Just like the NATO C-17 fleet. And with France, Denmark, Finland and Greece set to operate the Globaleye, I think the case for the pooled fleet to be the Globaleye is much stronger than the Wedgetail.

Like I said, they were looking to tack on to the larger US order for the E-7.

 

[ytz]

Like I said, they were looking to tack on to the larger US order for the E-7.

The US E-7 has been reinstated by Congress. But zero chance the NATO pool is going to buy the E-7. In no small part because of the trade war problems. And there's no point when the Globaleye has a large user base in Europe.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The US E-7 has been reinstated by Congress. But zero chance the NATO pool is going to buy the E-7. In no small part because of the trade war problems. And there's no point when the Globaleye has a large user base in Europe.

We could just start producing them and deliver to NATO airbase with a note “… please enjoy our 2% contribution to solving part of your problems. For warranty issues s, please consult our online ChatBot - the BombaBot. Certain charges may apply. Offer not available in Quebec.”

 

[Colin Parkinson]

At the rate Saab is making promises, I gotta wonder what will be left in Sweden. Can't wait for Saab to promise to employ every Canadian.

Well we do, we pay Sweden for the right to construct furniture in our own homes.

 

[Kirkhill]

At the rate Saab is making promises, I gotta wonder what will be left in Sweden. Can't wait for Saab to promise to employ every Canadian.

Leonardo threatens UK exit: 12,000 jobs at risk as ageing military fleet falls behind Europe - Freelance Informer

SPECIAL REPORT: DEFENCE Britain’s last helicopter manufacturer warns of complete withdrawal from UK operations as the Ministry of Defence delays on £1 billion contract, pushing the defence giant to breaking point. Here we examine the crisis at Leonardo and he particular challenges for defence...

www.freelanceinformer.com

For a sense of scale - The UK has one helicopter factory left. It is owned by Leonardo now, having originally been the Westland plant which allied with the Italian Augusta company. It is associated with the Merlin/Cormorant, the Lynx/Wildcat and the UK version of the Apache. Apparently it hasn't had a new-build contract in 20 years and despite all the talk about rearming the UK government is not investing big. At this time.

As a result Leonardo is threatening to pull out.

It will take 12,000 jobs with it.

Could there be 10 to 13,000 new jobs from bringing SAAB into the fold? Not impossible.

SAAB products

Gripen
Red Hawk
Erieye
Global Eye

CG84
AT4
NLAW
RBS-15 Anti-Ship Missile
RBS-70 NG Anti Aircraft Missile
GLSDB Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb
UTAAS Universal Tank Anti Aircraft System sighting system for AFVs
Trackfire RWS
Warheads and mortar rounds - including Strix and BILL2
MSHORAD

Giraffe
Sea Giraffe
ARTHUR

9Air C2 Mission Management System

Mines
Torpedos
ROVs/UUVs

Its holdings include Bofors (40mm, 57mm Archer 155mm) and Kockums (Stirling cycle AIP subs, Visby corvettes) as well as the Docksta CB90.

SAAB is also tightly integrated with BAE and a growing partnership with Boeing.

I suggest that SAAB is not about building Gripens or Global Eyes in Canada. The effort is to get it to help us build an integrated defence economy that serves the needs of the CAF. The Hanwha offer is comparable.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Leonardo threatens UK exit: 12,000 jobs at risk as ageing military fleet falls behind Europe - Freelance Informer

SPECIAL REPORT: DEFENCE Britain’s last helicopter manufacturer warns of complete withdrawal from UK operations as the Ministry of Defence delays on £1 billion contract, pushing the defence giant to breaking point. Here we examine the crisis at Leonardo and he particular challenges for defence...

www.freelanceinformer.com

For a sense of scale - The UK has one helicopter factory left. It is owned by Leonardo now, having originally been the Westland plant which allied with the Italian Augusta company. It is associated with the Merlin/Cormorant, the Lynx/Wildcat and the UK version of the Apache. Apparently it hasn't had a new-build contract in 20 years and despite all the talk about rearming the UK government is not investing big. At this time.

As a result Leonardo is threatening to pull out.

It will take 12,000 jobs with it.

Could there be 10 to 13,000 new jobs from bringing SAAB into the fold? Not impossible.

SAAB products

Gripen
Red Hawk
Erieye
Global Eye

CG84
AT4
NLAW
RBS-15 Anti-Ship Missile
RBS-70 NG Anti Aircraft Missile
GLSDB Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb
UTAAS Universal Tank Anti Aircraft System sighting system for AFVs
Trackfire RWS
Warheads and mortar rounds - including Strix and BILL2
MSHORAD

Giraffe
Sea Giraffe
ARTHUR

9Air C2 Mission Management System

Mines
Torpedos
ROVs/UUVs

Its holdings include Bofors (40mm, 57mm Archer 155mm) and Kockums (Stirling cycle AIP subs, Visby corvettes) as well as the Docksta CB90.

SAAB is also tightly integrated with BAE and a growing partnership with Boeing.

I suggest that SAAB is not about building Gripens or Global Eyes in Canada. The effort is to get it to help us build an integrated defence economy that serves the needs of the CAF. The Hanwha offer is comparable.

But hey, we don’t want that end to end approach, do we?

 

[ytz]

Could there be 10 to 13,000 new jobs from bringing SAAB into the fold? Not impossible.

All of Saab worldwide is 30k. That includes their land systems, marine systems and ordinance businesses. The idea that Canada would have the equivalent of 40-50% of total Saab global employment for a fixed order of a few dozen jets stretches incredulity.

And they made only a few hundred direct jobs in Brazil. I can't believe how gullible people are after watching Saab pull the same schtick in Brazil.